I think criticism is fine, though some modes of it on this forum have become excessively sour and counterproductive, and a few individuals have become abusive of staff. On Reddit, it is even worse - with the RAM adjustments being what they were, some unhappy punters have openly hoped Framework fails and goes into liquidation.
I am sure you offer this assertion in good faith, but I do not believe it to be true. I think the RAM crisis bit FW in the bum in a way they were not expecting.
My advice for any laptop user is to carry a spare. I melted the mainboards on two Dell XPS13 units and I am certain their overseas minimum-wage support channel would have fobbed me off if I had been minded to get Support assistance.
Meanwhile, yes, it would be good for Pro spares to become available. I would be most happy to see them in the store tomorrow, as I am sure are Framework themselves.
I was not talking about silicon availability, I was talking about the chassis upgrade kits not new units. To be clear this ram shortage is manufactured by a greedy oligopoly and born from the circle jerk nature of corporate ai. That doesn’t make it frameworks fault, and there is nothing they can do about it. It would be unreasonable for them to sell memory at a loss. My entire issue revolves around the availability of the upgrade kits, unless there is an aluminium shortage I am unaware of I do not think it’s excusable to lack availability.
I am not playing “gotcha” here, just noting that a normal reading of the above is that in the context of a CPUs and memory theme, an assertion that there is “capacity and stock” will be interpreted to refer to the aforementioned silicon.
On the ability of upgrade kits, @MJ1 has covered that point very well: HQ staff logistical limits and manufacturing facility lead times will be the cause. I apply Occam’s Razor: a company wants to sell stuff, and by that reasoning, FW will have good reasons for not being able to sell stuff.
Please remind yourself the subject of the thread. I am not appreciating your tone. I think it’s perfectly obvious to someone discussing in good faith what I was talking about. You cannot blame the lack of stamped aluminum chassis on a memory shortage. Framework paper launched the upgrade kits and as a customer who bought in for the prospect of upgrading my device I have a right to be upset with them about this. Everyone in this thread is excited for the 13 pro upgrade kit and plans on purchasing it, so I am not sure why you think you need to defend a multi million dollar company from its customers.
This is unrelated to the thread, but I don’t think people should be as upset as they are about the memory shortage. It’s affecting everyone, not just Framework. If anything, it’s probably affecting Framework even more because they don’t have the same kind of massive pre-crisis RAM inventory that a company like Lenovo or Dell may have been able to sit on.
That said, as mentioned previously, the RAM shortage has nothing to do with the upgrade kits or other new parts, aside from RAM and storage obviously. If Framework is restricting parts availability simply because the 13 Pros are still in preorder, that doesn’t seem like the smartest move. Even if certain parts aren’t being manufactured quickly enough or other issues holding them back, I’d still rather see them release the parts that are readily available instead of holding everything back together.
I just wish they would explain why the upgrade parts still aren’t available. Isn’t transparency also supposed to be one of Framework’s big selling points?
It may very well have an impact, dealing with ram sourcing which previously was a nothingburger is consuming a lot of logistics resources that might otherwise be spent dealing with setting up the logistics for and selling individual parts.
Pretty sure they do have some leftover parts that they could sell right now but that does take effort and if I criticized them for prioritizing fulfilling preorders before selling more stuff after complaining about them selling preorders they could not cover that would be a bit hypocritical.
On a positive note it looks like they are working through the batches faster now so we might get parts soon, I am personally also waiting for those.
Don’t take it personally. I don’t intend to have a “plain-speaking tone”, but appreciate I might be interpreted in that way. There is perhaps something in my natural turns of phrase that I do not see.
I believe I understand the subject thread—that FW should speed up the availability of parts unrelated to the RAM crisis—but I believe the underlying thesis to be wrong. I think it is part of the cut-and-thrust of discussion to elucidate that view.
My opinion is that FW could not go any faster, for the reasons I’ve already supplied: basically dull logistical reasons. I don’t disagree that it would be nice for parts to be available immediately, but I am guestimating that this is not possible.
@Squiggler I appreciated your thoughts. @Michael_Brayden_Lanc seems overly critical. To be fair, I’ll reiterate that I do wish the chassis kit were available for earlier generation framework owners such as myself.
In my particular case, I have a framework 13 12th gen that I use everyday. I would like to upgrade to get the new Pro body, battery and display as I’m sure Michael and other framework users are wanting. I do wish FW was able to be transparent about the process, we’re 150 days from the original announcement and the die hard users cannot upgrade their machines as promised. I’m sure the new Pro has had a more popular reception than expected and supply chain issues cannot be planned for ahead of time.
I do not see how I am “overly critical” here. I think I have been completely rational in my disappointment regarding the lack of availability months post announcement. I do not think we as consumers should be as accepting of paper launches as we are. I am not calling for some sort of boycott of framework or anything ridiculous, I am merely pointing out that I would love to buy an upgrade kit, where are the upgrade kits? I do not think it is productive to try and hold a shield from all reasonable criticism up for framework because they are not as large as other laptop vendors.
Agreed, the memory shortage is not framework’s fault, and it would be unreasonable for them to try and sell memory at a loss. The situation I fear, however, is that framework has created a situation where the memory crisis does affect the availability of upgrade kits. Meaning, the stock to actually fulfill the kits exists right now and is sitting in warehouses, but framework will not release them because it is more profitable right now for people to order complete new units. I think it would be nice if framework gave us some word on why these kits are not available. Worst case it is what I feared and I can confidently know that they do not deserve my continued business.
I’m also really curious if there’s any update on the 13 Pro Bottom Cover Upgrade Kit availability. I’ve actually been slowly building my Framework for more than a year now . I started with a Ryzen 5 7640U mainboard, and over time I’ve been collecting and reusing parts. I now have the mainboard, a 2.5K test display and top cover, and I’m basically waiting for the Pro bottom cover kit to take the next big step and finally turn everything into the laptop I’ve been planning.
I totally understand that complete 13 Pro orders come first, especially while production is ramping up. But since we’re now well past the original launch period, I was wondering if Framework could give us even a rough idea of when the upgrade parts might reach the Marketplace?
It doesn’t need to be an exact date, even something like later this year or early next year would be really helpful for those of us planning builds around these parts.
I’d rather wait for the Pro chassis and reuse everything I already have than buy the older bottom cover now and replace it again later. That’s kind of the whole reason I got into Framework in the first place
Any news or rough timeline from the Framework team would be really appreciated!
Just adding this here for some context — I contacted Framework Support in early August specifically about the 13 Pro Upgrade Kit, and this was the response I received at the time.
At that point, pre-orders were still ongoing and there wasn’t a confirmed availability date for the upgrade kit. Since we’re now in October, I’m wondering if there has been any update since then, even just a rough timeframe?
FW employees don’t normally hang around threads, they’re unlikely to see the question. If you want to try again for a rough estimate, you could contact support, and let others here know what you hear back.
Batch 11 Expected Oct, previously Sept - Sold Out
Batch 12 Expected Oct, previously Sept - Sold Out
Batch 13 Expected Oct, previously Sept - Sold Out
Batch 14 Ships Oct - Sold Out
Batch 15 Ships Oct - Sold Out
Batch 16 Ships Oct - Sold Out
Batch 17 Ships Oct - Sold Out
Batch 18 Ships Nov - Sold Out
Batch 19 Ships Nov - Sold Out
Batch 20 Ships Nov - Sold Out
Batch 21 Ships Nov - Sold Out
Batch 22 Ships Dec
Batch 23 Ships Dec
At this moment, looks like there are a little behind on actual ship date vs original expected. They shipping as fast as they can make them.
So currently, “No Earlier Than” mid November, mid December looks like a fair guess. If that’s of use to you.
Thanks, that actually makes sense. I hadn’t thought about using the current batch schedule as a rough “no earlier than” estimate. Although I was under the impression that pre-orders would end around Batch 20, and we’re already past that now, so I was hoping the upgrade parts might not be too far behind.
I already contacted Framework Support back in early August about the Pro Bottom Cover Upgrade Kit. At the time, they told me there was still no confirmed availability date because Pro pre-orders were ongoing. I posted their response above as well.
Since that was almost two months ago, I think I’ll contact Support again and see if there’s any updated information. If I hear anything useful, I’ll definitely post it here for everyone else waiting for the upgrade parts.
Mid-November to December would actually work pretty well for me if that ends up being the timeframe. I’ve already been collecting parts for this build for over a year, so another couple of months won’t hurt . Still, even a rough timeframe would make planning everything a lot easier.
Then there’s the other question: after spending more than a year collecting everything and finally assembling it… will it all actually work? Especially after reading some of the reports about Ryzen 7040-series mainboards having issues following BIOS updates. I guess that’s one of the joys — and risks — of being a DIYer!
Thanks for pointing out the batch schedule though. It gives me a much better idea of what to expect. Hopefully we’ll see those upgrade kits sooner rather than later!
. I started with a Ryzen 5 7640U mainboard, and over time I’ve been collecting and reusing parts. I now have the mainboard, a 2.5K test display and top cover, and I’m basically waiting for the Pro bottom cover kit to take the next big step and finally turn everything into the laptop I’ve been planning.
Especially after reading some of the reports about Ryzen 7040-series mainboards having issues following BIOS updates. I guess that’s one of the joys — and risks — of being a DIYer!