My one major complaint about the Framework Laptop is the display. It is extremely reflective in all light, even when powered on. This also makes the display very difficult to see in sunlight — even indirect sunlight such as inside a car.
Is there anything Framework can share about concepts/developments for more display options?
Personally, battery efficiency is more important to me than any increase in resolution.
You might be interested in the various matte screen protector solutions here:
There are also many other threads discussing potential future display options, but doing a quick search on Panelook, I can only find one other suitable panel in production (also glossy) with a 1920x1280 resolution. That would definitely improve battery life at the expense of pixel density.
Using dark mode in the middle of the day exacerbates the issue, no? In any case Matte screen protector would help a lot.
I feel my eyes are tired more with Framework Laptop’s display than my old MacBook Air and Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 6 displays. And the display is reflective as others reported. Here is Framework Laptop’s display (SKU: FRANFX0001) specs: Framework | Display Kit
Weight: 412.2g Dimensions: 297mmx 9mm x 229 Width: 13.5 in (34.3 cm) Resolution: 2256 x 1504 Panel: LCD Aspect ratio: 3:2 Contrast ratio: 1500:1 100% sRGB coverage Glare-reducing coating Brightness: >400 nit Pre-attached display cable
I want to see a display option to care for eyes.
https://www.howtogeek.com/743149/what-is-a-super-retina-xdr-display/
Apple moved away from an LCD panel in favor of OLED and needed a new marketing term to describe it. “Super Retina” is Apple marketing speak for a display that uses OLED technology.
The “anti-reflective” and “low blue-light” (and “low power” for the better life) are keys. Here is one medical article about the risk of blue light. Those options are difficult technically?
Other articles about the risk of blue light:
The book: Head Strong - Dave Asprey - Chapter 8 “Your Brain on light, air and cold” - “Junk light is as bad as junk food” is introducing the papers below about the blue light topic.
OLED seems like the best general direction for this issue considering they emit far less bluelight.
In the meantime maybe use Night Light? Looks horrible but better then going blind! Hope your eyes are ok!
Yeah, the OLED display looks the best for health. And thanks for your kind words! Night Light? How to use it? Use it in the darkroom?
According to the book “Head Strong”, Dave Asprey, the author of the book above is wearing orange glasses, blue light blocker grasses or the glasses at Amazon US.
I’m talking about the option in settings that most Operating Systems have! I find it does help quite substantially in reducing strain (although it’s not perfect and may be placebo!)
Not to sure if that’s what you’re asking about though!
All OLED displays use PWM (flickering-based brightness control), which is quite bad for the eyes. It tricks the iris into remaining too far open, so the retinas are hit with more light than they can stand. This is why looking at PWM displays cause eye strain and can cause permanent damage to the retinas. But hey, PWM saves $1 on manufacturing costs!
Probably referring to red shift. This alters the colour temperature of the display to reduce blue output. It can increase this effect at night but it can also alter the colour temperature in the day if it’s bothering you.
Personally I use QRedshift but that’s for the Cinnamon DE. I have it set for 6500K - 100% brightness during the day (but my monitor is already shifted towards red using the ICM profile here https://www.notebookcheck.net/uploads/tx_nbc2/BOE_CQ_______NE135FBM_N41_01.icm ) and 3500K - 60% brightness at night. It automatically adjusts, in slow steps. Perhaps you could set a lower colour temperature during the day to cut down the blue. Say 5000K or so.
I do not know if you are specifically referring to laptop displays but, at least in the larger-size OLED screen market, LG’s WOLED architecture is very much not PWM outside of a minor dip in brightness on every refresh (this is something that Rtings has charted in their reviews).
Can you provide a spec sheet from LG which supports this claim of WOLED not using PWM? I wouldn’t trust Rtings. As far as I know, only Notebookcheck analyzes screens’ PWM scientifically, using a high frequency light sensor and oscilloscope.
Um, are you sure you’re not mistaking Rtings for one of those questionable “benchmark” sites like Us＊＊Benc＊＊＊rk that always seem to appear high in search engine results?
We place the photodiode tool at the center of the screen and use software to record and measure the flicker frequency with the backlight at 100% of its brightness, at 50% and 0%. If we notice anything strange, we also check the flicker with an oscilloscope.
For reference, here’s their monitor-focused review of the 42" C2:
As well as their TV-focused review of the 65" C2:
Thanks! I will try it!
With regards to the whole blue light thing, there is no actual evidence that it causes any damage. There’s a difference between exposing retinal cells in a petri dish to high levels of blue light, and natural exposure where those cells are protected by the rest of the eye, the eyelid, the iris etc.
If blue light were harmful, we’d have a pandemic of blindness nowadays, especially among programmers and those that use a PC for a living. People have been spending lots of time behind computer screens for over 40 years now.
Whenever you’re outside during the day, you’ll be exposed to much more blue light than a screen can provide anyway. On top of that, during the day you’ll be exposed to UV-A and UV-B light, which unlike blue light IS harmful to the eyes. So wearing sunglasses will do much more for your eyes than any display swap or colored filter will.
Most people suffering from eye fatigue when using a screen, do so because they’re not blinking enough. Also focusing on a nearby object for a long time will cause eye strain.
The best mitigation for those problems is blinking more, wearing any kind of glasses so your tears don’t evaporate as easily, and following the 20-20-20 rule (every 20 minutes, take a 20 second break and focus on an object more than 20ft away).
Yes, certain screens can seem to help with eye strain, but that is more likely a result of glare (or lack thereof), backlight technology, and adjustment to the surroundings (auto brightness).
Blue light can have an effect on your circadian rhythm, so avoiding exposure to blue light in the evening can be a good thing. But that’s really the only reason to even consider colored glasses or tools that adjust the screen color.
I’ve been spending a lot of time with actual eye specialists as a result of a problem with my lacrimal glands, causing dry and irritated eyes. I did ask about the possible effect of screen usage and blue light, and what I could do about it, and they took time to explain what actually causes eye strain and basically debunked the whole marketing ploy that opticians use to sell blue light filters.
I admit it is hard to keep track of all the sites, since so many are either
clickbait or subsidized by manufacturers. However Rtings (based in Quebec Canada) does say something that is false: “as mentioned, most monitors are flicker-free.” That is simply not true from my experience with eye strain. By comparison, Notebookcheck finds that over 51% of monitors use PWM. I’d rather trust the pessimistic view from the Germans which matches my experience. In addition, I generally see much more in-depth analyses from Notebookcheck with more measurements and focus on details.
One thing that might be worth mentioning is that Rtings is a relatively young website compared to other trusted review sites, I think sometime in the mid 2010s is when they showed up? And even then they didn’t really move into monitor testing until the later 2010s if not until 2020 or something.
Furthermore, they tend to not test products that are more “bog-standard run-of-the-mill” pre-built OEM stuff or the like.
Both of these aspects could very well result in them actually finding most of their tested monitors being flicker free because, by the late 2010s or so, flicker-free was already a marketing selling point and, of course, cheaper monitors are going to be less likely to be flicker-free, many of which fall into the “bog-standard run-of-the-mill” pre-built OEM stuff that they don’t really care to review anyway.
I have a cheap $130 Asus that is flicker free. I think it depends as much on the brand as the price.
Some companies are run without concern for customers’ eye health, because the executives are either ignorant or uncaring or both, but other companies’ executives do care and are informed.
I meant like $100 or less, especially the OEM kind commonly sold with prebuilts. The likes of 1080p is “low end” enough nowadays that even one in your aforementioned $130 price-range can be competent considering that, once you get to the more $170 range, you’re already approaching high refresh and/or variable refresh 1080p monitors.
Perhaps I should have been more clear that, when I said “cheaper”, I didn’t just mean inexpensive but actual “cheap” as in “cheap feeling” quality as well as price and the like.
Nevertheless, this can end up once again going hand-in-hand with what I said about Rtings being relatively young in the monitor review field in that, by the time they joined that area, even $130 monitors were advertising that they’re flicker-free. That’s very much on the lower-end of the price range when it comes to non-OEM non-pre-built monitors that one would actually consider purchasing on its own which it the market that Rtings is targeting with their reviews.
So when one has only been reviewing monitors for maybe 3 years now, it’s no surprise that they find that most monitors are “flicker-free” since, from a general consumer side of things, it sounds like you almost need to try to find a monitor that isn’t flicker-free.
Hi @junaruga! I just got a second-hand 12th Gen Framework, switching from my old mid-2012 MacBook Pro. Like you, I feel my eyes are getting tired very fast, and I can’t really figure out why/how. Is it a matter of blue light? Refresh rate? Brightness?
I’ve already set up an extension-based blue light filter, but it doesn’t seem to change much. (I spent a few hours on my old MacBook again yesterday, and didn’t feel any strain. While on my Framework I feel a strain in less than an hour.)
I’ve seen in another thread that you have bought a matte screen filter. Has it helped in anyway? Do you have any other recommendation?
Kind regards,
— Philip
