# Dual RP2040 Card (Dev Board and Debugger)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Expansion Card\ **Created:** [April 1, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078 "2024-04-01T14:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Adrian\_Joachim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/adrian_joachim/32/9949_2.png) [@Adrian\_Joachim](https://community.frame.work/u/Adrian_Joachim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/21 "2024-04-04T13:02:22Z")
> [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > I’m wondering how much battery life this would cost me if the module is plugged in e.g. for a day. If it’s just a few minutes, I wouldn’t mind. But I don’t know enough about the battery side of things here to calculate that myself, or even just make a rough estimate. 5V \* 0.0011A = 0.0055W, So it would discharge a 61Wh battery in just about 11k hours (ignoring conversion losses and stuff of course) XD. > [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > Alright, according to DigiKey it’s just a simple division – leaving 5491 hours of runtime Not 100% sure you divided the right things from each other there. ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/22 "2024-04-04T13:23:29Z")
I divided the rated mAh value from the battery (which is btw. 85 Wh) by 1 mA. With 1.1 mA I get pretty much exactly 5000 hours. Edit: Is the error here the conversion from battery voltage to the chip’s supply voltage? Edit 2: Also, why did you use 5 V instead of 3.3 V for your calculation? ---
**Author:** ![Adrian\_Joachim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/adrian_joachim/32/9949_2.png) [@Adrian\_Joachim](https://community.frame.work/u/Adrian_Joachim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/23 "2024-04-04T14:06:16Z")
> [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > I divided the rated mAh value from the battery (which is btw. 85 Wh) by 1 mA. With 1.1 mA I get pretty much exactly 5000 hours. That only works if you are consuming the power at battery voltage directly. For stuff like this working with watts and watthours is much easier even if the conversions are never 100% efficient. > [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > Edit: Is the error here the conversion from battery voltage to the chip’s supply voltage? Yes, the pico would not be too happy with 18v and neither would most other usb devices XD. There are all kinds of dc to dc conversions going on in a laptop, 5v rails for the usb, very high current ~1.3V for the cpu, 1.2V for the ram, 3.3v for internal devices and a bunch of other stuff. > [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > Edit 2: Also, why did you use 5 V instead of 3.3 V for your calculation? Your picture looked like you were using an ldo for the 3.3v rail, on an ldo the input current is the same as the output current (it just burns off the voltage diff as heat) and the laptop is supplying 5v to the usb port. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Pearce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@Alan\_Pearce](https://community.frame.work/u/Alan_Pearce)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/24 "2024-04-04T18:20:40Z")
> [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > But yeah being held in reset will cause it to consume a little more power than completely disconnected from power. A whole ma seems like a bit much though but there is a lot going on on the pico. That would be about right. Remember the oscillator is still going so there will be a certain percentage of the gates inside the chip still switching. If this is using a crystal it is certainly in the ball park I would expect. ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/25 "2024-04-09T21:48:43Z")
> [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > I could have told you that before you started XD, I’m honestly kinda surprised how not cramped it is, you could probably single side it. This actually works remarkably well! Had to size down the voltage regulator, though, compared to the suggestion from the framework design files. ![Bildschirmfoto 2024-04-09 um 23.39.11](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/uploads/framework3/original/3X/f/6/f631030632609fa6f5378f4f6dd39f789dab9d4f.png) ![Bildschirmfoto 2024-04-09 um 23.39.52](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/uploads/framework3/original/3X/6/1/6140734013315668f95dd6258a3752c481c0ee08.png) ![Bildschirmfoto 2024-04-09 um 23.40.10](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/uploads/framework3/original/3X/f/3/f35775ad5b7f586da66175a932d85b11d098e37b.png) This is a 4-layer version, with ground pours and signal lines on the top and bottom and a ground and a 3.3 V plane internally. The next step is now finding the right connector and switch for the final v1 design. ---
**Author:** ![Adrian\_Joachim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/adrian_joachim/32/9949_2.png) [@Adrian\_Joachim](https://community.frame.work/u/Adrian_Joachim)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 5:53am UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/26 "2024-04-10T05:53:58Z")
> [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > This actually works remarkably well! Had to size down the voltage regulator, though, compared to the suggestion from the framework design files. Yeah an ldo should do for most cases instead of the fancy switching regulator the pico uses. > [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > This is a 4-layer version, with ground pours and signal lines on the top and bottom and a ground and a 3.3 V plane internally. 4 layers probably makes the layout less of a pain. I made a very small rp2040 board once but I used 0805 components and soic8 flash so I could hand solder it and the routing got extremely cramped. I should probably figure out how to do layout on more than 2 layers at some point, especially since it got quite cheap now. Edit: you may want to add at least some test-points for reset and bootsel for at least the one connected to usb, probably also for the other one and it’s usb lines. ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 7:00am UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/27 "2024-04-10T07:00:18Z")
> [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > Yeah an ldo should do for most cases instead of the fancy switching regulator the pico uses. That was already in the design, I just replaced it with a smaller footprint package. > [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > 4 layers probably makes the layout less of a pain. Sure does, I really wouldn’t have wanted to route all the power on the front or bottom layer, too. Might not even have worked out in this case. > [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > I should probably figure out how to do layout on more than 2 layers at some point, especially since it got quite cheap now. I’d say it’s pretty much the same as doing two layers. Doesn’t make much of a difference to me, at least. > [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > Edit: you may want to add at least some test-points for reset and bootsel for at least the one connected to usb, probably also for the other one and it’s usb lines. Good point ^^. > [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > I made a very small rp2040 board once but I used 0805 components and soic8 flash so I could hand solder it and the routing got extremely cramped. My projects so far have all been hand soldered, too. Went down to 0604 components, that’s where the limit is for me with hand soldering. (I guess if I really had too, 0402 would also still be possible, but really painful ^^.) This is the first project that requires me to go even smaller. ---
**Author:** ![Adrian\_Joachim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/adrian_joachim/32/9949_2.png) [@Adrian\_Joachim](https://community.frame.work/u/Adrian_Joachim)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 7:03am UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/28 "2024-04-10T07:03:49Z")
> [@Florian\_Beck](#): > > Sure does, I really wouldn’t have wanted to route all the power on the front or bottom layer, too. Might not even have worked out in this case. It certainly wasn’t easy but the board works. I did only need a few pins though so I was able to ditch a few components. the board was only about 1.5 rp2040s wide and about 3 or 4 long XD. ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 8:00am UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/29 "2024-04-10T08:00:51Z")
> [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > It certainly wasn’t easy but the board works. That’s great! I certainly have missed some very important connections before or had to make manual adjustments afterwards 😅. A sharp knife and good soldering skills are certainly very helpful in that case. From my experience this really is something that needs time to learn and will get better and easier with each project. This is probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th board I designed. If you want a really deep dive into PCB design, I can also highly recommend [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ySuUZEjARPY). ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Pearce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@Alan\_Pearce](https://community.frame.work/u/Alan_Pearce)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/30 "2024-04-10T17:03:47Z")
> [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > 4 layers probably makes the layout less of a pain. Four layers is the absolute minimum I would use for these sort of chips. Use of ground and power planes is essential to minimise power problems. > [@Adrian\_Joachim](#): > > I should probably figure out how to do layout on more than 2 layers at some point, especially since it got quite cheap now. Kicad can do multiple layers quite easily, far more layers than you could dream about. It is quite easy to configure for this. ---
**Author:** ![Adrian\_Joachim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/adrian_joachim/32/9949_2.png) [@Adrian\_Joachim](https://community.frame.work/u/Adrian_Joachim)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/31 "2024-04-10T17:20:16Z")
> [@Alan\_Pearce](#): > > Four layers is the absolute minimum I would use for these sort of chips. Use of ground and power planes is essential to minimise power problems. I have done multiple boards with the rp2040 on only 2 layers and all of them worked fine so far. > [@Alan\_Pearce](#): > > Kicad can do multiple layers quite easily, far more layers than you could dream about. It is quite easy to configure for this. I don’t doubt it but I do have to do it XD. ---
**Author:** ![Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/earnest_williams_geo/32/27187_2.png) [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://community.frame.work/u/Earnest_Williams_Geo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/32 "2024-06-21T17:07:08Z")
Hi! I’m sorry if I’m not following the thread of conversation correctly, I’m new to this format. I wanted to know if you’d made any progress with this. I also wanted to point you to this device, the T-PicoC3, which has an RP2040 and an ESP32-C3 on the same board. They communicate via UART. It might be useful for you. [T-Pico C3 schematic](https://github.com/Xinyuan-LilyGO/T-PicoC3/blob/main/Schematic/T-PicoC3.pdf) `type or paste code here` ```auto ``` ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/33 "2024-06-21T17:50:50Z")
> [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](#): > > Hi! I’m sorry if I’m not following the thread of conversation correctly, I’m new to this format. > I wanted to know if you’d made any progress with this. Hi, Thanks for asking! I was basically ready to order the boards, but then realised that because of the size constraints there’s some extra cost (e.g. for smaller vias) I had missed and especially getting the parts placed is quite expensive. My previous projects I always soldered by hand, but that’s not possible with this. As I’m currently just a student, I haven’t yet been able to afford that. It’s actually not that expensive for a single board, but you have to order multiple and the parts placement has quite a high set-up fee regardless of how many boards you order. I believe it was about 200 € for 5 Boards overall. If there’s a couple people interested in sharing the cost (and risk of it not working) and maybe get a working board out of it, I’d be happy to take care of all the work and share the design files with you so you can check them yourself. It’s just the financial side holding me back right now. I will definitely post an update here if I find another solution. > [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](#): > > I also wanted to point you to this device, the T-PicoC3, which has an RP2040 and an ESP32-C3 on the same board. They communicate via UART. It might be useful for you. That’s interesting, thanks for sharing! ---
**Author:** ![Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/earnest_williams_geo/32/27187_2.png) [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://community.frame.work/u/Earnest_Williams_Geo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/34 "2024-06-21T18:54:04Z")
If you’d be interested in selling them on Tindie and having someone look at the boards to double check they’re good, I’d be willing to fund the up-front cost. ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/35 "2024-06-21T23:20:49Z")
> [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](#): > > If you’d be interested in selling them on Tindie and having someone look at the boards to double check they’re good, I’d be willing to fund the up-front cost. That would be amazing! I had actually already thought about selling the additional boards to reduce the cost for me, so I don’t mind that at all. What do you mean with having someone look at the boards? The design files or the actual physical boards? I already have the design files [on my GitHub](https://github.com/thecodechemist99/rp2040-dev-expansion-card/tree/main/Electrical/KiCad_templates/Expansion_Card_Retrofit). But I’ll clean the repo up a bit, it’s currently still a bit of a mess 😅. I’d also be happy to send someone a board to check it or something like that. Edit: I just saw that Tindie only allows to be payed via PayPal as a seller and I don’t use PayPal anymore. Are there any alternatives to Tindie? ---
**Author:** ![Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/earnest_williams_geo/32/27187_2.png) [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://community.frame.work/u/Earnest_Williams_Geo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/36 "2024-06-22T16:11:23Z")
I’m sure there are. I’ll look around. Yeah, I just meant look at the files. I only mentioned that because you said ‘and risk of it not working’ haha. ---
**Author:** ![Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/community.frame.work/earnest_williams_geo/32/27187_2.png) [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](https://community.frame.work/u/Earnest_Williams_Geo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/37 "2024-06-22T16:16:27Z")
There’s lectronz. > **[Welcome to the maker market!](https://lectronz.com/)** > > Lectronz.com is a marketplace for electronic enthusiasts with a focus on the open-hardware and DIY electronics community. ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/38 "2024-06-22T20:32:30Z")
> [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](#): > > Yeah, I just meant look at the files. I only mentioned that because you said ‘and risk of it not working’ haha. Alright, thanks for the clarification. I mentioned it because there’s always a certain risk with a first prototype that something might not work as intended. Often that still can be manually patched, but I’ve had issues before where that wasn’t possible either. So I just wanted to make that clear, this is a relatively complex project after all. > [@Earnest\_Williams\_Geo](#): > > There’s lectronz. Thanks, I’ll check it out! Edit: I just cleaned up the repo. I left the mechanical part from the reference design in there for now but in the electrical part there’s now only the relevant project left: [Project on GitHub](https://github.com/thecodechemist99/rp2040-dev-expansion-card). ---
**Author:** ![Rowan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Rowan1](https://community.frame.work/u/Rowan1)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/39 "2024-07-10T03:14:35Z")
So is there any update on this? From what I read this project is ‘in hiatus’ due to sizing issues, is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Florian\_Beck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@Florian\_Beck](https://community.frame.work/u/Florian_Beck)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 9:12am UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078/40 "2024-07-10T09:12:19Z")
> [@Rowan1](#): > > So is there any update on this? > > From what I read this project is ‘in hiatus’ due to sizing issues, is this correct? No, size wise this project is quite doable. Currently it’s an issue of financing the order of a few first boards, as discussed recently. @Earnest_Williams_Geo did you have a chance to check out the design files? Or did you want someone else to do that? Btw. I’ve set up a store on the site you suggested: [Lectronz](https://lectronz.com/stores/thecodechemist99). [Previous page](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.frame.work/t/dual-rp2040-card-dev-board-and-debugger/48078.md?page=3)