Sitting back as a Windows user this does make me chuckle.
Say what you like about Windows, too old to care at this stage.
But yes I always see three things when Linux crops up -
New excited user states he has just got distro (whatever) installed and is super happy.
He then get 13 further commnets not saying “Well done, welcome to the club!” but “You picked the wrong distro dude, should have gone with (whatever)!”
As a new user you post up a question on how to do something. The reason being as a Windows user most tutotrials or how to’s will start literally at “Click the Start button and”
Linux instructions seem to miss out the first 5 steps “cos you’ve been using it for 20 years and not a noob so we don’t have to tell you that!” So then when you ask you get “well you need to go and learn noob cos we all had to!” Ahhh thanks for that agressive and quite frankly rude response, You know what I’ll just reinstall Windows!
When you mention that 2 happened several times when trying to move to Linux, you get the response “No you didnt noob! You must just be an idiot or something!” Which they fail to see the irony of their response and prove my point.
It’s exhausting which is why I have vowed never to bother with Linux on a laptop or PC ever again. You really need to housetrain a lot of your userbase and write better tutorials. That and get the distros down to say 4 or so and settle on a desktop(?). Fragmentation aint helping but it’s amusing watching the tug of war and in fighting occasionally when I see it pop up.
Just my thoughts as an outsider and sometimes dabbler.
I agree with you, users of “small” distros can sometimes feel like they are part of an elite and so answer in a harsh/condescending way to new users, same way some new users feel entitled to have answers to their questions (immediately and at zero cost).
More tolerance from both sides wouldn’t hurt anybody .
What I got from my journey (Windows → Ubuntu → Debian → Void Linux), is that Ubuntu is one of the most popular distros for a reason: It’s easy to use and well supported by Canonical and its community.
However by using a more confidential distro, people have to accept that if they face a problem, they’ll need a certain amount time to resolve it and be willing to learn some new competencies along the way.
If they want something that works out of the box and to not spend hours searching for a solution for a (seemingly) stupid problem, they should not choose a lesser known distro (i.e. not jump right in by installing Arch Linux for example, they’ll shoot themselves in the foot).
So ask users not to ask Framework to handle more work is fine.
As far as the forum goes anything not abusive to another member or anyone outside is fine, being too nice is hardly going to be moderated anymore than asking fo help on any weird home made distro.
The problem for me is where people expect Framework to do more than they already do which is what this topic tries to address and to that I agree. What I don’t like is trying to tell other people not to do that, and sure being nice isn’t always the best policy. So a logical argument seems fine.
I think what they are trying to convey is that the distro not working on a Framework computer is not directly Framework’s problem or responsibility to fix.
I think this is a valid point, but I would also say that this community is also not Framework’s direct support outlet, but rather the community’s. With the tags that @Destroya mentioned it is possible to filter out things pertaining to distros not officially supported by Framework.
While I would not advocate for people to not report their issues here, I would absolutely agree with the OP on going to that distro’s team with the issue as well. They are the ones that can directly fix it.
I still hold out hope that Debian will become an official Framework supported distro.
An exemple of burn-out (pun not intented). Sure, Lightburn is a proprietary tool but was still one of the best laser cutter software for Linux. While I don’t support their decision (pretty radical) , i understand it could be draining to support zillion variant out there or see posts/questions for your I use arch btw.
I’m a linux user for 20+ years and I do find our “communities” being very taxing.
Anyway, most of you got the point, thanks.
There are better solutions to their issue than just screwing over all Linux users. Most proprietary software just support one or two (usually RHEL and Ubuntu). The rest is up to others to add support to other distros. For example, arch users can create an AUR package that takes the rpm and extracts it to install on arch. They are just being lazy. Another reason open source software is best.
Another option that works well is providing a container which should work irrespective of the underlying OS.
Definitely, they don’t have to give support to any. That they do two Linux and Win is there business and no one else’s hence the title I imagine and empathise with.
Well yes and no. From the view of those not supported it can seem a bit ‘I made the right choice’ ‘you made another stop whinging’
but then the whole topic is about people being cheeky and wanting Framework to support their choices of OS
So this topic isn’t about distros but about people being ‘cheeky’ and that’s clearly what goes on.
There have been a lot more contentious topics and posts so cheeky is a bit of a relief.
Enjoy your choices in ‘life’ or really in your ‘consumption’
Choose your diet with thought for not just your digestion but for the devastation it brings to your enviorment.
I do agree they don’t have to support any. Its just weird to me they choose the most bloated linux distros. Arch Linux, Linux Mint, Fedora, Ubuntu are all very bloated. All of them use and require systemd. I just find that very strange.
But that aside, which posts have you seen that are contentious? I am very curious now. Feel free to whisper me.
Been running Artix on mine since I got it. I’d say most of the Arch advice tends to work just fine. I remember members of our community even managing to get BSD to happen. I’d love to see a full survey of who uses what, tbh.
On the contrary, they use the distros that are most supported, and I would think the reasons for that would be obvious. A lot of Linux users like digging and fixing things, but most people just want their computer to work. Chances for this are best with the most professionally supported distros.
Debian has really old repos and uses a much older kernel in most cases. Framework hardware is new and cutting edge in some categories. Being mainstream does not mean that they focus on professional environments or offer paid support, etc.
It is not that it CAN’T work just that they don’t have the employee bandwidth to take on supporting all of them. I am impressed that they have actual Linux support specialist on staff. I think that is already supporting Linux more than other manufacturers.
Can confirm. I dual boot Arch Linux and FreeBSD on my AMD framework laptop. A lot of it works. Not everything (for example, my thunderbolt 4 dock isn’t working under FreeBSD) but enough works that I regularly use it and often prefer it over my Linux install.
Unrelated to FreeBSD: I haven’t seen any of this distro toxicity that this thread claims exists on this forum. I’m pretty confident this is a non-issue. Plus who cares that y’all noobz chose the wrong distro when you started by choosing the wrong OS, all the cool kids run FreeBSD
Debian works, and I don’t care what you run. If you like Ubuntu that’s fine. I grew up using HP UX and Sun OS, Debian with XFCE feels super comfortable and runs on Framework without any issues. They should say it’s supported, and other desktop environments probably look better. If a bunch of people were posting “Run NetBSD or die” that would be a different story. I’ve never felt distro pressure here except to use supported distros and that’s not a lot of pressure.
Bingo. To be honest, the only “distro toxicity” I see is from the OP, who is demanding everyone stop seeking help for anything outside of ubuntu and fedora. This is a community supported forum. People should not feel like they are not allowed to ask questions just because it’s not a distro the OP approves of.
I think the issue isn’t about asking on the forum for help but asking Framework to support it officially. Whereas I agree with the OP that it’s somewhat insensitive to expect Framework to support ‘this and that’ distro I do feel the OP has gone OTT by telling other users what to do.
Maybe the OP could put a ‘please’ and a smiley face in the title to tone it down somewhat.
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