Battery one doesnt seem like a big problem on a laptop made to be able to draw 240 when its only plugged into 180, i just dont get why they decided to only make a 180, apparently about half the user base wants gpu, so half the user base is gonna have to wait for a 240 to come out when there is no indication that is happening anytime soon?
But are there problems in heat management? in dissipation?
Playing with the network cable connected, can you run out of power?
There are no problems with heat on mine. I think Boe’s unit has a hardware fault. He is running into an issue with the power passthrough from the USB-C modules possibly causing the GPU throttle and heating up the module at the same time.
My suspicion is some kind of hardware fault with the modules he has or maybe a firmware bug. His last post on his other thread noted the throttle is gone when plugged directly into the board.
An update from my end, I have been bypassing the expansion card and plugging the power directly into the board. The hard throttling hasn’t gone away, but does seem less frequent. The battery drains by about 30% per hour while under load. Not ideal for long gaming/video editing sessions. The bottom of the laptop also remains white hot to the touch.
It’s definitely possible that I have a hardware defect of some sort, though (according to hwmonitor) the CPU/GPU temps aren’t too outlandish - 90ish C and 70ish C respectively.
Hm. I’ll try to undervolt my CPU and GPU as well as lower the power targets if mine will behave similarly. Maybe that’ll kill 10-20% of the performance, but I still have my desktop anyways if I really need the performance.
Contact frame support. Let’s see if it is a hardware error or a general error.
Wrong person, I’m from Batch 5 and still waiting ^^
But yeah, they should contact support if this issue persists.
I guess they developed a 180w power brick first because it would suffice for most people most of the time, while still being compact and affordable.
From Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive - 180W Power Adapter:
We needed to solve for the tricky task of creating an adapter small and portable enough to be a great fit for the Framework Laptop 16 in an integrated graphics configuration while also outputting enough power to handle the Graphics Module with a discrete GPU. 180W covers the majority of use cases while still being extremely compact.
For those who would be running a workload that sustains over 180w draw for long periods, there will always be the option of third-party power adaptors.
If that doesn’t sound like a good tradeoff to you, the Framework Laptop 16 supports 240W USB PD 3.1 power adapters too, so you can configure your DIY Edition without a power adapter and bring your own 240W one instead.
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I can’t tell by the way you’ve worded your post, but just wanted to make sure you are aware that there are no 240W usb-c power adapters on the market yet.
They didn’t release a 180W first because they chose it over a 240W, they developed it first because they were the first to make one.
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I had a feeling that was the case, but wasn’t sure. I assume it’s only a matter of time until they arrive though.
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One thing I’ve not seen in other reviews that I’m curious about for my specific “workload,” what is the input lag like in the built-in monitor? A not-insignificant part of why i want a laptop this beefy is I wanted a portable setup to bring to my fighting game locals, I’d like to know if it’s usable (<10ms) or if I should make sure I have an external monitor
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well the tech specs specify 9ms rise+fall time, and i haven’t heard anyone complain about the response time.
I’m happy with the input lag on the built-in monitor. I have a 240 Hz 1ms monitor (HW unboxed measured it at ~2-3ms if I recall correctly), and I am quite satisfied with the FW16 internal display. I play Overwatch 2 on it at ~130 Hz, and the game is very enjoyable (several steps above playable and nearly as good as my desktop rig). I can notice a difference between the FW16’s display and my 240 Hz monitor, but it’s slight. For example, I spent several hours playing Overwatch 2 on my FW16 with the desktop not 20ft away without feeling compelled to switch to the desktop. Overall, I’d say it’s solid.
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Here’s my impressions after about a week with device:
Build Quality
The build quality feels really solid for the most part. It is a bit heavy with the gpu module installed, as expected, but with the default module, it’s actually very noticeably lighter in my hand, and in my backpack. Both modules seem to have very good tolerances in terms of their fitment to the body of the machine, and don’t have any play once installed. They feel very solidly attached. The only pain points so far have been the spacers next to the touchpad being a bit loose. There’s maybe .5mm of play in one of them that I notice if I look for it, and they aren’t completely flush with the surrounding modules and frame. During general use, it is a total non issue though because I only notice those flaws when looking/poking at the deck, not using it normally to rest my hands.
I was a bit concerned about the magnesium frame because of some bad impressions I had with an LG Gram in the past, but the bottom case is extremely rigid, and inspires the same amount of confidence as the framework 13, or other aluminum unibody laptops.
Performance and Thermals
The machine is fast as expected with a zen 4 apu inside. I’ve compiled a number of big code bases including firefox, and it chews right through them as fast as you’d expect. The fan noise and thermals are impressively good when it’s just the cpu running. Paradoxically, it seems like the device is actually a bit quieter with smaller default module in back, but both are silent for standard use, and relatively quiet for heavy cpu loads. It even works well when on my lap because it has a top intake in addition to the bottom one, and all the exhaust is out the side.
For light gaming, it is also very quiet. 2d games like Balatro, Slay the Princess, or FTL all run next to silent for me at capped 60fps.
The flipside of the coin is that engaging the GPU (either integrated, or dedicated) to a significant degree does get quite a bit louder. This is expected, as most gaming laptops have very loud fans to cool 100+ watts of gpu. Compared to the apple silicon macs with big gpus though, it is much louder. I would say that if you plan on gaming on it, or using the gpu for other heavy workloads, you should definitely consider headhpones for audio fidelity, and maybe avoid using it in quiet offices where you would bother others. It’s at least not a bad pitch for the fans though, and I wouldn’t mind it as background noise while working in my own home.
Software Experience
I’ve spent a lot of my time with the machine so far testing out different Linux installs. I have been considering trying out NixOS for some months now, and I finally took the plunge with this new laptop. I also installed Arch at first to get a grip on things with a familiar system. All I can say is that everything basically just works. It’s more like using a desktop with known compatible components than the standard rigamarole of quirks and workarounds you get with linux on laptops - especially those with dedicated gpus. I was really suprised at how seamless having a dGPU in the system is using the DRI_PRIME environment variable, or gnome’s built in dGPU selection to only power on the dGPU when I needed it. I did some measurements of power consumption, and there really wasn’t a significant power savings for desktop use with the default module compared to having the 7700s in there. I haven’t touched it yet, but I think it is worth mentioning that the keyboard is qmk compatible which is a huge quality of life boost for anyone that has even a passing familiarity with the software, or a willingness to learn it. It is so much more flexible and lower overhead than proprietary keyboard management software, and it’s great fun for the tinkerers out there. I already have a couple layout modifications I want to add, and possibly even an extra keyboard layer, and qmk/via make that possible.
Inputs and Outputs
The keyboard is a different feel compared to the Framework 13, and I can see how some people would say that it is “spongier”, but imo, it comes down to personal preference. I actually prefer the softer (both tactile and sound wise) keyboard on the 16 to the more clacky keyboard on the 13. I don’t find my typing speed or accuracy is much different between the two though, and I prefer the deeper travel compared to competitors from Apple etc. It’s nothing spectacular, but it is very usable, and the layout is very well thought out. I especially like the full size right shift key, and the well separated arrow keys that I can press with my pinky by feel/muscle memory. My only wish for future keyboards would be an ortholinear layout with more keys under my thumbs so I could really exercise those qmk features.
The screen is also very usable. It isn’t anything breathtaking, but it is very practical. I have one of those fancy new 4k 240hz Oleds on my desktop, so I’m comparing it it pretty much the best out there, and it looks very vibrant. It obviously has the standard LCD downsides like backlight bleed and blooming in dark rooms, but with anything other than super dark content/pure black on the screen its easy to ignore. The colors pop, and the refresh rate and decent response times make desktop use so much more fluid compared to the 60hz panels on the framework 13. Even comparing it to pristine oled response times, it is very good for desktop use, and for the sort of gaming you’ll be able to do on the 7700s. I’ll also say that the adaptive sync is very well implemented. I pushed it really hard on both the desktop, and in some 3d games with low framerates and high variability and saw no flickering, or added judder, which isn’t a given.
EDIT: I was recently made aware that adaptive sync is bugged on linux at the moment. I was just negligent and thought it was working when my compositor failed to apply the setting silently. I’ve confirmed that it doesn’t show as adaptive sync capable in linux for me. There is a Kernel patch submitted by a community member though that should fix it, but it may be a while before that is back ported to stable kernels, or for the latest kernel to incorporate it. My bad! [ANNOUNCEMENT] Adaptive Sync / Freesync / VRR not working
Battery Life
The battery life is fine for my needs. It’s not incredible like the apple silicon machines, but it is very usable. I’ve done minimal tuning on the linux side - just install PPD and let it do its thing. I’m seeing about 8W idle usage, and 12W with the screen pushed up to higher brightness. With standard web browsing, or video streaming, it stays below 20W usage, and I rarely saw it go over 30w for any desktop usage, including demanding things like copying large files in the background, or installing large updates over the internet. That puts me at an easy 5-6 hours with mixed usage, without having to worry too much about keeping all my background apps closed, or any aggressive power saving measures. It would be cool to see a 99Wh battery in the future, maybe with improvements to chemistry like happened on the Framework 13 after a few years, but I’m not missing it right now.
Compared to the Framework 13
I have a refurbished framework 13 with the lowest end 11th gen intel part that I’ve been using for about a year now. I really love that machine, but it had some things that were limiting or frustrating. The two big ones were the thermals/noise and the performance. The intel chip was great for light workloads, but once it started to get stressed, it got really loud, and would get easily suffocated when used on my lap. Even just playing a youtube video above 1080p (yes even with hardware accelerated playback) would make the fan spin up quite a bit. The framework 16 basically solves both of these issues. It has way more performance on tap, and can actually play 3d games other than ps2 era ones, or minecraft. It is also much quieter, even under a decent amount of load. The keyboard deck does get a bit warm, especially if you push the machine while it is also charging rapidly, but never uncomfortably so. I imagine once Summer rolls around, it will be a bit more annoying, but so far I’m not bothered.
The touchpad is an upgrade in some subtle but important ways. It is slightly bigger which is nice, though it could have been bigger yet… I think i"m fine with it how it is though because at least for me, I don’t have to disable it while typing at this size. It also has a much more satisfying, and easier to actuate click. I mostly just used tap to click on the 13 because the diving board mechanism was too stiff for my taste. On the 16, it is a much better actuation pressure imo (maybe 30% easier to press?), and it also has a much more satisfying low pitched click.
I prefer the revised keyboard layout with the slightly different arrow keys, but that will probably come down to personal preference.
Having a high refresh rate screen is also a huge quality of life improvement imo, even for desktop work. Scrolling feels so much smoother, and the desktop just feels more responsive in general.
It is a lot heaver, and bulkier, but it still fits in my backpack. I imagine there are a lot of backpacks it wouldn’t fit in though. The charger being light and compact makes up for that somewhat though. I don’t think it is unreasonably big, but it would definitely be harder to carry around one handed which I sometimes did with the 13 around the house.
As far as the build quality, there are some upgrades and downgrades. The hinge feels a lot more sturdy, and the bezel is much more securely affixed. The keyboard deck has more flex though, and the fact that there are seems on it definitely makes it feel less solid even if it is still very rigid internally.
Final Thoughts
I think this device is a dream come true for a specific kind of user. For me, the repairability and upgradeability are incredible, but I would still be interested in the machine with a more conventional build just because of the incredible attention to detail with things like the hardware compatibility, and the commitment to a no-nonsense package that provides sensible hardware combinations that are tuned for usability, not just marketing bullet points. I think if you are looking for something that is the best value for gaming, or has the most premium design and build quality, this isn’t it, but if you just want a really functional laptop, especially if you run linux, this machine just works, and it inspires a lot more confidence for the future than other devices that tend to rot after 4-5 years and the end of official support. 2 grand is a lot of money for a laptop, but I will say anecdotally that I spent 2 grand on an m2 macbook pro last year, and ended up returning it because despite the great build quality and battery life, it just felt too compromised. I felt like I had to baby it because repairs were so expensive, and I felt like every time I wanted to do something with it, apple just said no, or made it harder - soldered storage and memory, difficult to dual boot, mac OS just being generally like a nagging parent rather than a helpful tool imo (sorry not sorry lol).
I don’t plan on returning this laptop. I wouldn’t recommend it to my mom, but I would definitely recommend it to someone like me.
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I misread the caption as “A man of quantity”
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For general purpose i’m starting to recommend the FW13, the 16 is for us XD
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Yeah, I think for most uses, the 7840u in the 13 is already overkill, and it’s a great all arounder. And for those just after a good Windows gaming experience, there are much better value laptops that are built well (not even mentioning how much more performance per dollar you can get with a desktop… For 2 grand you can get a 7800x3d platform and a 4080 lmao). But the framework 16 is offering something unique for sure, which is exciting for me personally even if it is a bit more niche than pre release hype might have lead one to believe.
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I’ll do a user video. Do you have something specific you want me to test? I’m in batch 7.
well im basically consuming anything fw16 related XD but i like to see normal use of the keyboard. Cause every “tech youtuber” are like checking the keyboard flex and for me thats not really a big deal cause normal people don’t press hard on a keyoard for it to flex. I just want to see someone just talking about the typing experience and not pressing on a laptop and saying OMG it flex… of course it does…
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