I love that my post was removed at the same time as this disclaimer was posted. Retroactively.
Good job.
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Yet another official framework comment that does literally everything but address anything about DHH award.
So, do we have to wait for him to post on twitter about the fact that he almost certainly has some undisclosed stake in Framework ?
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Why not just ask him directly?
Mostly because I donât care that much about Niravâs motivation for spamming Omarchy on Twitter. It could be that DHH has stakes in FW; it also could be that they promoted it to get a bunch of reposts and likes while being fully aware of who DHH was, thinking there wouldnât be backlash or that it would blow over.
I donât really care, because at this point the one thing that is certain is that they knew about it and relentlessly continued nonetheless. I (and -surely- a lot of people on here) would honestly be just fine if they just issued a short apology: there are worse crimes in the world than advertising the dotfiles of a serial racist on Twitter in hopes of getting a few sales in.
I mostly feel insulted by the silence. It screams âwe approve of this man personally but know saying it out loud would not go wellâ, which Iâm sure is not even something that Nirav actually thinks.
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I do not have much to add other than it is extremely disappointing to see Framework go this way, both on the decisions taken with award money and with moderation choices. All the enthusiasm I had for the project is down the drain. Genuinely heartbreaking to see a project so close to my values in some ways and so distant from them in others.
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How do you guys keep making this worse for yourselves? You couldâve just funded the supremacists you wanted to if you didnât say anything about it. Now everyone can take this as more âapoliticalâ hogwash along the lines of âI can excuse fascism, but I draw the line at being against fascismâ.
Keep in mind, this all started because Framework gave money to somebody who wrote an article about how they used to love London but it isnât white enough for them anymore, and people jumped in to deny, dismiss, defend, and derail any attempt to speak truth to privilege.
I highly recommend the moderators of this forum learn more about how online radicalism and cryptofascism actually work to be better able to identify and shut down any attempt to drive a wedge into online communities.
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Hello, nrp/mods
I own a batch1 release of the original framework. You can put me squarely in the innovator part of the adopter curve, and I purchased the device for the promise of it as much as any particular spec. It is getting a bit long in the tooth, and I have been actively investigating upgrading components in it.
Based on the overall trajectory of the company, including this thread, I will not be investing further time or money in the community.
Nrpâs statement at the top is so two-sided corporate speak to the point of major disappointment. Framework is not the first company to want money for its executives and investors without dealing with the consequences. However, when your branding and appeal are for political reasons, the doublespeak rings especially hollow.
Hereâs my analysis, leading to my above statement.
From a business perspective, controversy is a risk multiplier. Although there are some companies that cater to a specific subgroup, that necessarily limits your addressable market. Instead, most companies (and I include Framework) work by trying to appeal to segments without alienating the broad segment. The goal is to engage your base without causing controversy.
In this case, Framework is betting that the value they get (power, connections, money, anything) is greater than the cost. Anyone trying to explain DHH to the company is missing the point. They know, they donât care. If they back off later, itâs not because there was a sudden understanding, just that the cost was higher than expected. Everything else is just PR to obfuscate this reality.
So, I hope the power, or investor connections, or reading the tea leaves for US politics is worth it to you. But I have no interest in spending more of my time or money to find out
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I own a batch 1 13â, a batch 6 13â, a batch 1 16â, a batch 0 12â, 3 other 13â machines, and two 13â mainboards in standalone cases. I support Framework and trust them to make the decisions they feel appropriate. I support the right of everyone to live in peace and harmony providing they are not harming others or actively calling for harm to be done to others. I look forward to many new innovations from the Framework team, and I plan to be here to support them for a long time.
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Quite frankly I think this threadâs continued existence is a mistake. It has long outlived itâs usefulness and has reduced itself to largely people who wonât be satisfied until anyone to the right of radical leftism is utterly silenced forever, and they seem to have committed themselves to bashing Framework no matter what they say. Itâs seriously hurting my brain that the people claiming to be fighting for my rights are acting like this.
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DHH (who has his own Wikipedia page) is a bad guy. A white supremacist absolutely, and probably a fascist. Framework should cut ties with him.
Framework should also convert to a co-op and do total profit share with all its workers.
These things wonât happen because Framework is a capitalist corporation. It happens to be trying to do some social good at the same time, because thatâs Niravâs mission and he had the network and capital thatâs required to do anything approximating good under capitalism (a system where Capital is positively correlated with Power). But, heâs still a liberal capitalist (liberal being the actual definition not the American one), and I donât think anyoneâs convincing him to convert to a co-op anytime soon.
Thatâs about all you can get within the capitalist system. If youâre hoping for more, you need to step away from the idea the corporations are going to deliver us from the degredations of our system, considering theyâre the root cause of those degredations. Thatâs like appointing a king to overthrow a bad king. Ask not what some random profit-generating algorithm can do for you, ask instead where your nearest Food Not Bombs instance is at.
Given Frameworkâs mission, their decision to go âapoliticalâ (sort of) in the forums is the best I can hope for. DHH sucks but for whatever reason Omarchy seems poised to deliver the first actual Linux implementation of true hibernate. Integration of that benefits Frameworkâs ecosystem and improves the likelihood that people will get off Mac and Windows and into right to repair, Linux, and FOSS world. I was a milquetoast lib that was radicalized into a dirty little anarchist that founded a co-op because of FOSS, I think itâs a repeatable strategy.
Rather than seeking ideological purity from capitalists, Iâm more interested in how I can co-opt social good missions (if against their will, so be it) into a pipeline that shows people that got a taste of freedom that thereâs more where that came from. Itâs a pipeline, not a catapult.
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In case it is of interest, anyone can click on the little alarm bell at the bottom of this thread and select âmutedâ.
That will hide the thread only for yourself. It will not force that on anyone else.
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What nuanced discussion? DHH supports White Nationalism and ideas that want people dead and were seeing the slope happen in real time now that people feel like itâs okay to host podcast saying the most henious ideas and giving rise to a president whoâs gutting the country with an advisor whoâs an open Nazi. Itâs extremely easy to tell your PR/Marketing âhey, no matter how much DHH wants to acknowledge us donât do it backâ and instead youâre here with this nonsense. Please be smarter than this, youâre running an entire company and should know that all money isnât good money.
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Iâm not Trans and Iâm a white person, but Iâm concerned about this
Owner of a Framework laptop, and was gonna buy one for my partner, but I wonât now 
- mostly because of the ignoring of communities concern about DHH (atleast they responded about the other project). Then the new forum rules where it is disappointing to try equate Nazis with anti Nazis. They could have just apologised and everybody upset with framework would have understood. Doubling down on this sucks
Iâm a long term OSS software dev since my teens and Iâm late 20s now, so itâs a bit of a bummer.
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Yeah, honestly, the more I think about it, I keep coming back to this: Is this really the hill that @nrp and Framework more generally want to die on? It almost feels like pride and not seeming to cave to the âwoke mobâ or whatever is coming before good business sense here.
DHH is problematic (and yes, potentially problematic people like DDV can call out DHH, so thatâs not really a gotcha @DSN - nothing about whether DDV is problematic negates true statements that he has made about DHH, please stop bringing that up) based on his own stated views. People saying that thereâs no evidence for that either havenât actually read the stuff that other people have posted or agree with it (and therefore donât find it problematic). To keep doubling down on support for DHH (and there are many ways to support him and his projects other than straight-up monetary donations, as others have detailed) is just stupid at this point. It suggests either that @nrp and Framework agree with his values (something I donât personally believe) or that his views arenât viewed as a dealbreaker (as suggested by the âbig tentâ comments). The former is atrocious, the latter is ignorance (see the Nazi bar analogy). Neither is particularly smart.
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So I saw this write up of Omarchy the other day and thought of this thread. From what the author says the way Omarchy manages packages, upgrades, and a few other things seems totally half-assed and politics aside itâs unfortunate this distro is being is being recommended to Linux newbies.
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Whether Omarchy is a great project (many Linux content creators on YT think so for example) or a bad one (many other people on forums) has no epistemological connection to the topic at hand which is whether Framework is supporting âfar-right racistsâ.
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The mod team continuously closed / merged every other thread adjacent to this topic and kept this one which had the most incendiary title (if I was the speculating type Iâd say it was to done to intentionally frame every single person who disagreed with the way they handled any of this as radically to the left, so that future internet Clouseauâs conducting investigations would opt to dismiss all of it) Itâs having it both ways to police people not staying strictly on point to the title of this thread.
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Or it was just the first thread and every other thread was merged into the first thread and they felt no need to be accused of manipulating things by editing the title?
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Long time forum user here - this practice (merging dupe threads) is consistently applied to the entire forum, not just this topic.
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Agreed, Arch-based distros are generally unsuitable for new users, with a handful of exceptions. A not insignificant amount of installs might break when users want to install software they actually want, because maintaining an Arch system isnât a super trivial task
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