[SOLVED] Quality control concerns, two sets of defective hinges, and other issues

[Daniel_Power]

Update March 21st 2023

Framework support has agreed to make an exception and send another replacement hinge kit. I’ll update once I’ve installed them. I’m hopeful

TLDR

My laptop had a long list of defects.

1. Defective hinges (doesn’t support the weight of the display)
2. Defective touchpad (would frequently not register clicks)
3. One of the module removal buttons fell off
4. The webcam module was incorrectly installed from the factory, causing nightmarish static from the microphone depending screen orientation
5. The replacement hinges I received through warranty are ALSO defective

Framework support was initially helpful, but the hinges they sent as a replacement under warranty are now failing. And support refuses to help me anymore because the laptop is now out of warranty.

It’s completely unacceptable that any laptop would have TWO sets of hinges fail in barely a year, on top of all the other issues with this laptop.

Full story

December 2021

I received my Batch 6 Framework.

The hinges were not great. It didn’t greatly affect usage, but notably I had to be delicate with the laptop to avoid the screen falling.

The touchpad sometimes didn’t register clicks. It was a rare occurrence. So rare that I thought I was imagining things, or maybe it was a software issue.

The microphone would output deafening static if I moved the screen.

I mostly just dealt with these issues. None of them were serious enough to prevent me from using the laptop.

But over time, they got worse.

January 2022

At this point I wrote my first comment discussing my displeasure with the screen hinges.

Apparently wobbly hinges

There are two separate issues here that are getting mixed up. The hinges are not as tight as some people would like. This is what causes the screen to open further when the laptop is moved. This is annoying for people who move their laptop around a lot. The frame of the laptop, or where the hinge attaches to the frame, is too flexible. This is what results in the wobble. If the screen wobbles when struck, moved, vibrated, etc. but does not end up more or less opened than before, this is not du…

June 2022

And my second comment regarding the hinge issues. In this comment I also go over the microphone and touchpad issues I was having.

Explainer: Lid rigidity, hinge force, the CNC Top Cover, and the new 4.0kg Hinge Kit

I go to a weekly developer meetup, and everyone there who was considering a Framework has decided to hold off based on all the annoyances with mine. The hinge being the biggest one. Every time I go to pick up or move my laptop to show someone something, the screen droops. And outside of the meetups, it continues to frustrate me on a daily basis. If I use it on my lap, it droops while I’m typing. If I walk it it, it falls after a few steps. If I pick it up or lay it down, it falls. Stack that …

August 2022

At this point, the hinges could no longer support the weight of the screen. It would fall flat while stationary on a table. So I reached out to support.

I notified support about three issues:

1. The microphone static.
   I provided them the following reproduction video and audio:
   Video: video of reproducing microphone issue.mp4 - Google Drive
   Audio: screen microphone clipping.mp3 - Google Drive

2. The screen hinge issue
   I provided the following video: loose screen hinge.mp4 - Google Drive

3. A module eject button had fallen off of the bottom housing
   I provided the following picture: expansion card button fell off.jpg - Google Drive

Support helped me troubleshoot the microphone issue. Removing and re-installing it resolved the issue. Indicating that it was incorrectly installed from the factory.

Support agreed that my hinges were out of spec, and sent new ones. I asked if they could send the 4kg hinge, but they refused and sent the 3.3kg hinge, assuring me that it was sufficient.

Support also sent a new bottom housing assembly, to address the button that had fallen off.

I forgot to mention the touchpad issue, because at this point it was still pretty uncommon, and I still thought it might be a software issue. But the touchpad issue became more frequent over time.

September 2022

The new hinge and bottom housing assembly arrived. It took some time to install, but overall was a reasonably smooth process. The hardest part was getting the wifi cables routed in a way that didn’t interfere with the top housing assembly from lying flat.

With the new hinge installed, the laptop was much closer to my expectation. I was very excited, and I sent the following message to Framework support:

Thank you so much. I’ve received and installed the new hinges. The
difference is massive, and emphasizes just how out of spec my original
hinges were. With the new hinges, the screen remains perfectly in place
at any angle, even when picking up and walking with the laptop. All
while remaining open-able one-handed.

November 2022

I commented regarding the touchpad issues

[RESPONDED] Touchpad issues: dead spots, not always registring clicks made with little force

I have problem number 2 on a daily basis. Pressing hard in the middle will usually fix it for a few minutes, but the problem keeps coming back. It does not appear to be a driver issue. All features work perfectly (multi-touch scrolling and gestures, tap to click, cursor movement). It is only the physical click that is inconsistent. I have never experienced the dead zone issue. I’d recommend contacting Framework support. I should do the same.

December 2022

At this point the touchpad issue had gotten so bad that only about half of my clicks were registering. I should have reached out to support, but I was planning to buy the newly released Ethernet module anyway, so I just went ahead and bought a new touchpad module with the same order to avoid the hassle.

Note that I had already confirmed that removing and re-installing the original touchpad module did not resolve the issue. Unfortunately it was defective, and not just a loose connection.

Installing the new touchpad module resolved the clicking issue completely. Confirming that it was indeed a defective touchpad.

December 2022 also marks the end of the warranty period for my Framework, as I received it in December of 2021.

February 2023

Gradually over time, the new hinges had been getting looser. By February, the laptop felt a lot like it did before Support sent me replacement hinges. At hard angles, the hinge could no longer support the weight of the screen when stationary on a table.

I commented on the lid rigidity thread with updates on my customer support experience, as well as my disappointment in the replacement hinge.

Explainer: Lid rigidity, hinge force, the CNC Top Cover, and the new 4.0kg Hinge Kit

So I want to give an update to my previous post. I’ve since contacted support, and they sent a replacement hinge. I also purchased a replacement touchpad. Every time I go to pick up or move my laptop to show someone something, the screen droops. And outside of the meetups, it continues to frustrate me on a daily basis. If I use it on my lap, it droops while I’m typing. If I walk it it, it falls after a few steps. If I pick it up or lay it down, it falls. I contacted support, and they were v…

March 2023

I reached out to support one more time. I replied to my original support ticket, so that they would have all of the context from my previous repair, and gave a quick summary of the previous work that had been done and the previous warranty claim.

I provided the following videos as evidence:
Laptop sitting stationary on a table: 20230318_140358.mp4 - Google Drive
Laptop in use on my lap: 20230318_140826.mp4 - Google Drive

Support responded that my laptop was now outside the warranty period, and that they could not help me. They recommended I buy the 4kg hinge.

Conclusion

Framework has a wonderful mission statement, and I hope that they are successful in their goal of improving repairability in the laptop space.

However, they also have clearly poor quality control. They have designed a laptop with a hinge that wears out in 6 month intervals. They have even released a stiffer 4kg aftermarket hinge due to significant backlash, and yet they maintain that the original 3.3kg hinge is sufficient, and refuse to send the 4kg hinge for warranty requests.

Because the poorly designed hinge takes some time to wear out, people will make it just outside of the warranty period before finding that their screen no longer stays upright.

I know it’s only a sample size of two, but the fact that I’ve received two defective hinges at this point leads me to suspect we’re going to see waves of hinge failures as first generation Frameworks get older. And those owners are going to be stuck paying out of pocket to replace a poorly designed hinge with yet another poorly designed hinge that will just meet the same fate in half a year.

At this point, I will not be paying out of pocket for another hinge. Even if it’s only out of principle. My laptop came with so many defects, and I refuse to pay good money for another hinge that I full expect to fail in another 6 months.

[amoun]

@Daniel_Power

At this point, I will not be paying out of pocket for another hinge.

As you have two sets of hinges have you tried modifying the older set. Maybe a squeeze in a vice, drill holes and add a nylon grub screw etc.

I agree I cannot use the laptop in ‘moving’ situations but at 13 months it’s fine on a table even on a train table. I do use it for around 6 hours a day.

The swapping 3.3K for 4K clearly isn’t a warranty consideration unless they run out of 3.3K and offer a 4K if you not prepared to wait for a new batch of 3.3K

[Anachron]

Do we know if this issue also happens on the heavier hinges?

At this point I would insist on getting the heavier ones, especially since they’re the same price…

[amoun]

@Anachron

At this point I would insist on getting the heavier ones, especially since they’re the same price…

This has been discussed in other topics, under warranty you get a replacement, not an alternative. Price is not the issue.

It wouldn’t work to swap one faulty expansion type USB C for a USB A for the same reason, or a 12thGen i5 1240 for a faulty 11th Gen i7 1165 even though the i5 is cheaper.

Insisting is not a real thing

[Usernames]

@amoun

As you have two sets of hinges have you tried modifying the older set. Maybe a squeeze in a vice, drill holes and add a nylon grub screw etc.

I don’t think the mod you suggest is going to work, if it does it would be the same issue again when the metal bends out of shape further.

@Anachron

Do we know if this issue also happens on the heavier hinges?

Same design same flaw.

I cannot see why support refuse to replace the 3.3Kg hinges with the 4.0, they did the same for me which is infuriating and seems like an easy way to satisfy the customer at no additional cost. Problem being the issue will return no matter which hinge you use as the design will always fail IMO.

They are just metal bent around a pin, nothing is holding them closed but the metals own rigidity. To “tighten” this you would need to remove the pin then squeeze the housing which because it is not fixed will open up slowly.

[Anachron]

@amoun

This has been discussed in other topics, under warranty you get a replacement, not an alternative.

Well then do it the other way,- ask for money back and order the heavier ones with the money?

The only problem here being the shipping costs … maybe we will get an update about that next week?

[amoun]

@Usernames

I don’t think the mod you suggest is going to work, if it does it would be the same issue again when the metal bends out of shape further.

Yes that may well happen, although I think the issue is also that the ‘bearing’ becomes smooth.

I have thought of using linseed oil, in the ‘bearing’ which is a drying oil.

I tried using organic rapeseed oil on my chainsaw bar, as it is not much of an oil that dries, but after 6 months the chain became stuck under a 4.5HP petrol engine’s torque.

Anyway once warranty is over, if I have such a problem I will try a few ideas

@Anachron

Well then do it the other way,- ask for money back and order the heavier ones with the money?

Yes that could work for the whole computer but in this case the computer is out of warranty.

[GhostLegion]

The new hinges should have come with their own 1 year warranty, one you would still be in. I’d escalate. I may not understand how warranty replacements work but that would be my understanding.

Edit: I’m incorrect. See below

[Usernames]

As I suspected from the inconsistent force the pins are not actually cylindrical they have a flat side.

With the screen closed the flat side is facing the rear of the device, away from the user. My belief is that the hinge is formed around the pin while in this orientation (closed lid) and thus flexes when opened and closed. I think this is the reason the hinges get worse over time and I don’t see anyway the current design can avoid this.

For anyone curious what a good and user adjustable hinge might look like

@GhostLegion

The new hinges should have come with their own 1 year warranty

Excellent point!

[Morpheus636]

@GhostLegion

The new hinges should have come with their own 1 year warranty, one you would still be in. I’d escalate. I may not understand how warranty replacements work but that would be my understanding.

This is incorrect. You have until the end of the original warranty or 90 days after the replacement is delivered, whichever is longer.

Quoting from the Framework Computer Inc Limited Warranty

Any Product, part, or module repaired or replaced under this Warranty will continue to be covered by the Warranty for the greater of the remainder of the original Warranty period or (90) days following your receipt of the repaired or replacement Product, part, or module, unless a mandatory provision of your local law provides otherwise.

[Morpheus636]

@Anachron

At this point I would insist on getting the heavier ones, especially since they’re the same price…

@Usernames

I cannot see why support refuse to replace the 3.3Kg hinges with the 4.0, they did the same for me which is infuriating and seems like an easy way to satisfy the customer at no additional cost.

As Amoun pointed out, this is against Framework’s policies and procedures and will not accomplish anything. Support provides like-for-like replacements unless there is an inventory issue preventing them from doing so.

@TheTwistgibber

Warranty replacements are always like for like. We do not allow product changes, even for additional payment. In rare circumstances, we may swap for a different SKU (Stock Keeping Unit) but only if there is no LoS (Line of Sight) to incoming inventory that matches the part under warranty.

[Daniel_Power]

You have until the end of the original warranty or 90 days after the replacement is delivered, whichever is longer.

The defect involves premature mechanical wear. Even a defective hinge takes time to show this issue. What I’m understanding from this is that Framework has no confidence that its replacement parts will last for longer than 90 days.

Can we please not forget the assortment of other defects this laptop had? I’m appalled that this is a level of quality Framework considers acceptable, and that a $2200 laptop should have to have the hinges, touchpad, and bottom housing assembly replaced, as well as the webcam module reinstalled, only to STILL be unusuable as a laptop after just 15 months.

[amoun]

@GhostLegion

The new hinges should have come with their own 1 year warranty

I think that is the case if the hinges are bought as a separate item, which these were not as they were replacements.

~ hence the 90 days is only an extra on top of the warranty, so that a warranty repair with extend the warranty by 90 days if the warranty claim coincides with the final valid warranty date.

Neither of the above are quite the same as being sent hinges to do a DIY ???

[Daniel_Power]

I received the replacement hinges 193 days ago

This post is not about debating what Framework’s policies are. Frankly I don’t care. This post is about the wide range of issues with the laptop I received, the lack of quality control indicated by two independent sets of defective hinges, a defective touchpad, an improperly installed webcam module, a module release button falling off, and Framework clearly not standing behind their product.

[lbkNhubert]

@Daniel_Power - while I understand that you are upset, and I agree that you ran into more issues than one would hope or expect, I do not agree with your assertion that Framework does not stand behind their product. It’s unfortunate that you had a bad experience, and hopefully Framework can look at what happened and work to improve. No person, product, or company is perfect. Hopefully your next experience is a better one.

Have a good day.

[amoun]

@Daniel_Power

I received the replacement hinges 193 days ago

Yes my mistake I somehow aligned 90days with 6 months ???

[Usernames]

@Morpheus636

Support provides like-for-like replacements unless there is an inventory issue preventing them from doing so.

I was pointing out that Framework’s policy in these cases seem to gain nothing but negativity from the users who are dealing with a defective product Framework have shipped to them.

Phrased differently I don’t understand what is gained by sticking to this policy. The use case of users who have had issues with weak hinges probably exposes the defect more than others and it just seems logical to offer that choice. I mean even if you buy the 4kg hinges with the 1kg variance you are not even guaranteed to get stiffer hinges than the originals, lets not forget with the cost of shipping they cost more than 2x the listed price. Personally I feel with the design of the hinge it is inevitable they will get loose with use.

@nrp

While 3.3kg keeps the lid stable while stationary, if you are in an especially bouncy environment like a moving vehicle or holding the laptop open while walking, it’s possible you will want higher force to hold the lid angle.

Here it is basically stated if you want a laptop hinge that behaves like a portable devices hinge should we have this option. OK great so replace my defective hinges with these please. No you have to buy them. Why? Because policy.

Learning about the 90 day/rest of your existing warranty on replacement parts is disappointingly standard for a company aspiring to change the electronics industry. I think it’s hard to argue that if a product fails after the 90 days and within a few years it was fit to begin with and should not have been issued as replacement.

I too have had a number of issues with my Framework and this has just reminded me of all of that including the deceptive marketing on 60W CPU performance which incredibly still exists! I’m talking about claims of 60W boost which in reality CS confirmed:

The 60W PL2 post that you refer to above is specific to our 12th Generation Intel Core processors, we do not promise or expect a 60W boost to be possible on the 11th Generation Intel Core processors, these can vary typically from 45-55W

[Daniel_Power]

@lbkNhubert

while I understand that you are upset, and I agree that you ran into more issues than one would hope or expect, I do not agree with your assertion that Framework does not stand behind their product.

In what way did they stand behind their product? They replaced one defective set of hinges with another defective set of hinges, which lasted just barely long enough to get me out of the warranty period.

@lbkNhubert

Hopefully your next experience is a better one.

There will not be a next experience. I was an avid fan of Framework from the moment I heard of them. But I just spent over $2000 on the worst laptop I’ve ever owned, and after just a year, despite several part replacements, it’s not usable as a laptop.

If I had bought a Thinkpad, it would be less repairable. But at least I can expect it to function for several years. Is a repairable laptop really more environmentally friendly if you need to ship parts twice a year just to keep it running?

[lbkNhubert]

Hi @Daniel_Power - I don’t dispute that you ran into a lot of issues, more than anyone would want to. It’s understandable to be frustrated and disappointed. I do think that is affecting how you are viewing things. After all, it’s just a tool, not worth getting too high or too low over.

I do disagree with your assertion that the company does not stand behind its product. In your case they did do so across multiple issues, although ultimately things wound up not to your satisfaction. As the 3.3kg hinges are shipped by default, there are a lot of them out there, and time will tell if the failure rate increases with age.

Unless I am missing something, the primary issue that you’re currently experiencing is hinges that once again are loose. Due to this you are choosing to write off the machine, which no one can blame you for given your ordeals. However, you do have another choice available to you: to purchase the 4kg hinges which might be more to your liking. Yes, that would be paying for a part that you believe ought to be covered under warranty, but the cost relative to the cost of the machine is small. You are free to choose not to do so, but that seems like a waste of a machine that, although not without faults, in my opinion is far from the worst machine that I have ever owned.

Please understand that I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong for feeling as you do. I do hope that your next experience, with whatever company, is a good one.

Be well, and have a good day.

[Usernames]

@Daniel_Power

Is a repairable laptop really more environmentally friendly if you need to ship parts twice a year just to keep it running?

I’ve though about this part in particular. I have had 4 mainboards sent out, an input cover, replacement hinges and possibly a new battery soon (88% capacity with a reported 110 cycles!) and I know you and I are not alone…