This is odd. I use VMware Workstation on Windows 10 exclusively and I have never had any slowdowns. I’m a Batch 1 laptop though.
If you can’t pin down the issue, I would absolutely suggest that you contact Framework support. I understand your situation and I’m sure Framework does as well. If there is a hardware problem, they should be able to get to the bottom of it.
Are you a firmware engineer? Are you familiar with the ins and outs of such an undertaking?
There are A LOT of reasons for Framework to be behaving EXACTLY the way they are. The complexity of BIOSes are no trifling matter, and a lot of stuff rides on other things. This is not something you rush.
And if you think Framework is not extremely eager to roll out fixes to identified issues, you would be wrong. They would be insane to not want that.
What I have witnessed in my own use and experience with Framework leaves me confident that they are fully committed to their product line, and their customers.
I don’t have to be a firmware engineer. I’m on the customer’s end. Just like I don’t need to be a chef in order to say what I don’t like about the food.
Sorry I’m not trying to insinuate anything. Your accusations made it seem like you might be a subject matter expert on the issue.
I’m a software engineer, and that is the position I give my thoughts from.
I understand that if you are in need of solutions and on a time crunch that all the great explanations in the world wont come to your avail. However, hopefully understanding the situation better can be of benefit in another situation where time is not the crucial factor.
I am using VMWare workstation Pro 16.2.3 and I ran with this thread. I quickly downloaded a Win10 pro X64 just for testing if this is happening to me and it seems is not the case. I download the iso, install the windows, booted and open a webpage in like 15 minutes total.
I can share all my specs and the driver version I am running for troubleshooting purposes.
As a baseline I will start with my basic specs:
Framework Batch 8 (EU) i5 DIY.
Microsoft Windows 11 Professional (x64) Build 22000.613
32GB Crucial DDR4-3200
WD BLACK SN850
I tested the Win10 X64 build 19044.1288 with 60GB and 4GB RAM and 2vCPU.
As an additional note:
In my initial configuration, I crashed with the problem of Nested Virtualization so I disable a bunch of things in my Win11 setup to make it work. See this thread
Edit:
I almost forgot. I originally bought an ADATA XPG GAMMIX S70 Blade 1 TB, I had problems with performance, this was not listed here so I didn’t hesitate and return it and replace it with the WDSN850
Definitely not a SME on Firmware here. Also used to be an SE
Put it this way:
If this is what we’re getting when Framework considers this as a customer focused experience…there’s problem / room for improvement. And if it’s not customer focused, then there’s also room for improvement.
From an SE’s perspective:
Yes, there are a lot of moving parts…and features / fixes for 3.07 would have been frozen awhile back so that 3.07 could be tested… That means fixes for 3.08 would have been lined up in before 3.07 release. So from then to now, there’s 4 months plus to get things rolling…and we haven’t seen 3.08 yet. That, and together with still hiring for firmware engineers…points to resource constraints. Things are getting backlogged. CVE issues were made public back in Feb…so if it were customer focused, the time between 3.07 fixes freeze and Feb…those items could have been placed into a 3.08 freeze and enter the 3.08 test phase. CVEs could have been targeted for 3.09 or 3.10 by now. Allowing CVE fixes to holdback all feature / functional fixes to a single BIOS release…that’s a lot of eggs in a single basket. Not to mention that there’s likely additional fixes to come in the queue / pipeline. If the CVEs were communicated to Framework before Feb’s publication, then yes, it may have been landed into 3.08…but project management would have realised the ‘blocker’ / delivery risk if Insyde couldn’t provide fixes in time for fix integration (there could have been a cut off date for Insyde’s CVE fixes)…and should have planned for alternative route; deliver 3.08 without CVEs.
4 months+ still waiting for a 0.01 release…that’s where we’re at.
Just to clarify: “Rushing” is not what I’m suggesting.
So, I figured out the VMWare issue. Windows 11 enables Device Guard by default on modern Intel CPUs. Device Guard runs Windows in a Hyper-V hypervisor to mitigate side channel attacks. According to VMWare’s documentation, recent versions of VMWare Workstation are supposed to work fine with Device Guard if you check “Disable Side Channel Mitigations for Hyper-V enabled hosts” in the advanced settings of each VM, but in practice that does nothing to help with the performance of the VMs. The only way to get VMWare Workstation running properly is to Device Guard via Local Group Policy (or registry key on Windows 10/11 Home), as described in a VMWare KB article from back when VMWare Workstation did not support Hyper-V at all.
I figured this out after I ran into same problem with the Razer Book I just purchased from Micro Center yesterday. At Least the Razer didn’t shut off on me. But, the Razer has its own deal-breaker issue.
The display of the Razer Book is absolutely gorgeous, but it has an extremely grating whine whenever the fans even start to spin up. Apparently this is a problem with all Razer laptops, judging from this 4 year old Reddit post describing the exact same issue.
So, in a twist, I have decided to return the Razer and give the Framework more time. The shutdowns didn’t happen until I tried using VMWare, so I’m hoping having Device Guard off will fix that as well.
The VMWare warning message that comes up in this situation mentions Hyper-V and Device Guard. I knew I didn’t turn either of those things on, so I searched around for how to check for and disable each feature.
@Sean_Whalen I am glad that you found the cuplrit.
I’ve followed the exact same KB you were referring to when I encounter the Nested Virtualization Issue. It was a little late in my time zone to look for that specific page. I’m happy you find your way to it.
As a final note, you might find a better laptop for the price but is difficult to find this kind of community to give you a hand when something bad happens.
Glad you got the issue sorted out and sticking around. Plus, IMO (not anyone asked for it), the Razer laptop typically isn’t anyone’s first choice for a virtualization workstation.
Ahh yes, now that you mention it, I noticed pretty significant performance hits when I had that enabled. Turn it off and all of a sudden performance was back. I never assumed it was Workstation because an earlier version that didn’t have side chain mitigation worked perfectly. So I knew from the start that it was Workstation. I’m glad you were able to resolve it!
Also thank you for sharing the solution with us, as I’m sure you will not be the only one running into something like this!