I try to keep money at a distance, so rarely see a bank on my paths and I wouldn’t take a billion dollars to change my way.
To follow up on this which I didn’t respond to directly…
Every day / time you power up the laptop…you’re essentially restarting your test case.
No.
Assumption(s)
A. Let us say we charge for 24 hours and so the CMOSB is fully charged.
B. The CMOSB discharges at the SAME RATE regardless of the PC being on every day, once a week, OR not at all for 30 days.
C. Unless you attach ac then the CMOSB gets little charge only affecting the days before Armageddon by say a day.
If these are accepted then the test does not reset every day?
The “reset” is when you charge the CMOSB (in the test case for 24+ hours)
Switching the PC on does not take any more power from the CMOSB than if you just leave it for 30 days.
The difference with switching it on most days is that you see the point at which it won’t switch on.
Waiting for 30 days, apart from being impractical does not get you much if any useful information?
I HOPE ! 
On the day it does not start then I can at least do one of the following.
X. Get it to start just by connecting ac power.
Y. Open the case and measure the CMOSB voltage
To reiterate, testing most days isn’t restarting the test. If my logic is wrong then shout, I’m open minded about this if there is a logical argument to say that I’m re-starting the test then shout !!
Regards…
1 Like
Unless If you attach ac then the CMOSB gets little charge only affecting the days before Armageddon by say a day.
It’s that little charge bit, as I said plugging in for 1 hour can charge the CMOS Bat by 5% so you may want to take that into account as that would extend by a day or more maybe.
hey @Burt in your testing, are you keeping it unplugged from AC power for the entire duration? My thought is perhaps the main battery will drain prior to the CMOS battery if you are using it daily. Of course we do not expect the laptop to boot if there is no power in the main battery.
I think this is the reason the frustration was being raised by the users in the first place - for folks who do not use the laptop every day, we have found the laptop does not boot even if there is 60-80%+ charge left in the main battery.
Your test is different, but still a good data point to understand if the CMOS battery pulls any charge from the main battery when the laptop is powered ON. The current theory is that the CMOS battery only seems to charge from AC power so your test may be able to confirm this theory… assuming the main battery holds out…
Hi @d_p ,
I like questions to clarify !
I am occasionally charging the main battery, my occasional use can sometimes change but charging say 30 minutes at most every five days. I have not checked the charging calculations a few others have posted. These may also be affected by the variable charge rate available from the Framework supplied charger. I have yet to look into this, but I will wait to see how long it lasts before it refuses to start without ac power.
Originally I almost certainly didn’t charge the machine for 24 hours or more just enough to get 100% ish on the main battery. I found that regardless of the main battery state which was anything from 60% to 90% it didn’t boot without ac power. I didn’t record times etc. as not awre of the problem until I posted here.
I am not sure the CMOSB ever? gets any power from the main battery? A new one on me.
The occasional charge I give the main battery I don’t think gives the CMOSB much of a boost and so this is an unknown. I will complete this as as is, then look at maybe a slightly different approach. A lot may depends on the charger and its varying power …
From here…
" With PPS, the adapter can also be used as a programmable power supply in increments of 20mV and 50mA to further improve efficiency on devices that support it."
As and when I will find out if the varying rate available affects the time it takes to charge the CMOSB.
The one good suggestion I got from a post I just made on checking the CMOSB charging and voltage was to get a blank module (like the USB etc) and run wires from the battery to it to measure the voltage day by day etc. Maybe invalidates the warranty though.
Regards…
30 minutes every five days is 0.5mAh and as the CMOS bat uses 0.015mAh max/30 min you are providing enough for 16hours
This would in theory extend the ML 1220 power source three times
i.e the ML 1220 only has to do 8 hours work a day
If can do a month in exteeme cases you could be OK for 3months
According to specs and Framework you can multiply the 2 /3 weeks by 3 so 6 to 9 weeks.
No. If it did that it would discharge before the main battery.
Not unknown. Calculated.
*The battery charges at 1mA/h when it is not highly charged 1.2mA/max
- 30 minutes at that rate is 0.5mA/h and the max drain is 0.03mA/h
Not an issue the variable rate is to charge the main battery, the CMOS battery has it’s own reduced supply and is not affected by the charge rate of the main battery…
Each battery has it’s own controls to draw what it wants, the adapter does not decide this.
Test methodology under peer review it seems.
2 Likes
Yes but any help appreciated
Started having this about 2 weeks ago and still have it after updating to 3.09, really sucks since I don’t use my laptop that much this time of the year but I hope it won’t appear again when I start school again this August 
Hi
I hope you are aware of the advice to charge once a week for maybe 6 hours as the RTC|CMOS battery has a designed life of around 23 days. There are reports of people getting a month but I wouldn’t rely on that.
It seems more secure to keep it well charged when you can.
Wow… 190 message long thread with not a single official response.
Thanks to everyone who cobbled up the broken and fairly useless responses from Framework Support. Really really really poor response on Framework. This will go down as the most amount of money I lost to YouTube… you-know-who not to thank!
My 11th Gen Core i7 laptop only seems to last about a day and half without being plugged in (for another 8 hours or more). Even though I can’t really find a pattern. Sometimes it will last longer.
Once it goes bust it refuses to boot up for quite a while. Obviously I have to connect it and let the RTC battery to charge up I suppose. But they fact is I don’t know if that’s what it is doing… because sometimes, holding the powerbutton down for 10 seconds will start it up. Other times no amount of holding down power button or futzing around with connecting USB C cables to left then right and left then unplugging and doing a rain dance will get it going.
So I’ve essentially dropped more than a grand for a glorified desktop with dodgy battery backup. If I wanted a desktop I would have bought an NUC (total of closer to 1900 but I guess I could reuse the memory, ssd and Windows license elsewhere).
Last resort will order a new RTC battery and see if it does any better.
At the same time my 7 year old MBP just boots up once a month, irrespective of whether it is plugged in or not!
Here is one official response that I know. There are multiple threads about this topic.
1 Like
@junaruga what’s the point? None of them have a solution or admittance of the fact that it is a major issue with no software fix possible. They are still shamelessly selling the 11th Gen “at a discount”!
As I recognized that you thought there is no “single official response”, I shared one official “response”. That’s the point.
I can understand your feeling. But when you are angry, you should recognize that nothing is changed. This issue is old. I have seen people’s reactions to this issue. And I assume that people thought about this issue and situation, and already made choices, continue to use or sell or throw away. When you sell Framework Laptop on eBay, you can still get some amount of the money back. If you sell your Framework Laptop showing this issue, you are ethical. It’s a fair trade.
1 Like
Some other reports on such short times were ultimately found to faulty button cells or defective contact clamps. The claim is that after 24 hours of being plugged it, the cell should be fully charged and maintain the CMOS for about a week when unplugged and off (I don’t know if in suspended state the main battery still provides power to the CMOS). A week is a paltry number and definitely less than I would have expected (most laptops start up without trouble after having been on the shelf for months), but workable when used as a “daily drive laptop”, where the main battery will mandate frequent plug-in anyway.
1 Like
@Nils I would be okay with that if it were predictable. It is not. I have not opened the laptop yet, I’ve ordered a new battery, let’s see if that helps with the predictability!
It happened today morning and the only thing different with today morning is I’ve worked on the laptop ‘off power’ for two evenings consecutively and it was ‘off’ power most of day yesterday. Battery was still more than 50% when I left it last night. Anyway, all my explainations are pointless. It’s a design defect and they really don’t want to acknowledge it because it will either be a mass recall or a class action if they do!
It’s not a ‘laptop’ problem but an Intel 11Gen issue which of course ‘most’ laptops don’t use.
They do acknowledge, maybe you just have read enough on the forum.
It’s not a ‘laptop’ problem but an Intel 11Gen issue which of course ‘most’ laptops don’t use.
Ahem… Most laptops’ use CR2032s that last years. Because of the Intel bug it would drain in 6 weeks. The rechargable battery was put in to avoid having to replace batteries (by ‘most other’ vendors too). Framework had a design issue because of which it drains faster than they anticipated. I’ll cut them slack for that, h/w design is incredibly complex and very hard to revert after you’ve done a production run. Admit it and move on. Geez!
Hiding behind a response deep in a 295 message thread, 7 months after original report, isn’t acknowledgement, it’s hoping that no one finds out. That’s precisely why I started a new thread!
1 Like
The only problem I’ve seen attributed to 11th Gen is that when CMOS/RTC loses power, the processor may end up in a bad state that requires a hard reset (which, at that point, is apparently requires removing the main battery as well – the CMOS battery was already depleted, so it already removed itself. That’s one part I don’t understand about the fix: didn’t the system not just spontaneously perform a hard reset to create the problem?)
I understood that the fact that CMOS/RTC draws so much power to be maintained and/or that the main battery cannot help ito keep it powered, s entirely down to Framework’s design.
The alleged silicon bug in Intel 11th Gen makes the problem much worse and some production errors in brackets/faulty button cells gave a lot more attention to the defect, but the fact that the system can fail to power on with a healthy, charged main battery after being off for just weeks is really surprising (in a bad way). That’s not normal for or expected of laptops.
Without the bug people would probably have complained less, because plugging in the laptop would hopefully immediately restore power to CMOS, so apart from some settings being wiped, the system would boot; and if a laptop has been on a shelf for a month or so, you would probably plug it in, just to be sure.
2 Likes