to interject the 355 was compared to a Macbook M5 base model in a Macbook pro chassis
and from what I have researched panther lake has decent peformance off of battery no ? correct me if I’m wrong on this point
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I think ARM is powerful enough already, at least in Apple ecosystem and in Linux servers.
Many many companies have transitioned ther cloud servers to run fully on ARM offerings.
I hope we get a more efficient chip in the next mainboard too, I run out of battery insanely fast just watching youtube or listening to audiobooks on my i5-1334u.
Framework 12 is too expensive for Wildcatlake. We know Framework is more expensive than competing systems in general. Plus FW12 isn’t that low cost. So a Wildcatlake device that might cost $400 with other vendors might cost $600-700, which in that case isn’t worth it. So it needs to aim for higher performance, meaning Pantherlake.
All Pantherlake chips can use SO-DIMMs. There are faster DDR5-7200 SO-DIMMs coming. Also it would far exceed Raptorlake in graphics performance and even in CPU even with DDR5-5600. While consuming lot less power.
Framework has one disadvantage in regards to power consumption. It uses USB-C for the expansion cards, thus those ports can never be 100% idle. It will drive power consumption up. In that regard Framework should have gone for a new proprietary port for those cards.
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I don’t quite understand your point being that other vendors is 400 while framework is 600 ? can you restate it thanks
Wildcatlake is Intel N-series successor. Those go in $400 laptops or lower. Framework 12 on Wildcatlake will cost much more than that. Then you immediately lose competitiveness. That’s why it’s not worth going Wildcatlake.
People keep saying FW12 is a “value device” but price shows it’s more mid-range price. Then the components used must be mid-range or purchase can’t be justified.
But taking the current FWL12, and just looking a cost and specs, how competitive is it compared offerings from larger companies released around the same time?
Larger companies can negotiate lower costs, and more take advantage of economy of scale. How competitive the FWL12, or any Framework is, will be a function of what Framework can manage with their costs. We’d certainly hope FW could increase the spec/price ratio in the next mainboard, but whether it must only depends on how well the FWL12 has sold & continues to. Justifying a purchase can be more than just spec/price. If that was the only thing people looked at, FW would have died before even getting off the ground. The philosophy of repairability & upgradablity is a draw for some people, that they are willing to pay for.
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I didn’t buy it for the price to performance ratio. I bought it for several other reasons:
1. 2 in 1 stylus support.
2. Repairability.
3. No packaged bloatware or attempts to sell you other services.
4. Mindfulness of environmental impact.
5. Linux support
Four of those things are incredibly rare in any consumer electronics and all at once is almost completely unprecedented.
I personally value those things more than a perfectly competitive price to performance ratio. The 12 does everything I need it to do so I don’t care if it’s technically slower than other machines of a similar price or category.
I want Framework to think about price to performance and take it seriously. But I want them to focus on what they already do better than anyone else, in a word: sustainability.
Sustainability is infinitely more valuable to me than competitive price to performance. There’s a million other companies I can go to for that. But there’s only one that does sustainability almost perfect. (Fairphone needs to get their shit together. lol)
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This guy speaks! The fact that he has probably been through the most with FW12 but still vouches for it speaks volumes.
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In the latest framework q&a vlog with the 3d printing subject. Nirav was cooperating with the Hardware Team Lead and he explicitly said that they can’t speak about future hardware releases even though they are working on some. Fingers crossed they are mainboards for FW12! Personally, I want Ryzen 430 or Core Ultra 325
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