Certain use-cases definitely, I have a script that disables the fan and turns off all the leds on my t480s (they are all controllable which is neat) so it can keep doing it’s background tasks (moving files over a slow mobile connection for example) and not bother me when sleeping in a hotel room or something. Depending on what it does the skin temperature may go outside of legal limits but that is fixed pretty quickly once I re-enable the fan in the morning.
I see I’ve met a fellow linux enjoyer. What’s the advantage of that control in this use case, noise reduction? I like keeping the fans off because I know if they’re turning on I’m spending too much power for performance I don’t need and would rather have longer battery life.
I am sensitive to noise when sleeping but want the performance when I am not XD
1 Like
The main problem is noise, for me. I can’t stand the noise all day long.
1 Like
This review says it might not be great since it’s already on the louder spectrum of similar computers.
1 Like
Even a fan pinned to min?
that’s with the stock fan curves which may be a bit aggressive, but the 16 is going to have entirely different fans anyway. Also not entirely sure how that relates to the quoted text.
What I’d also like to see is the ability to set a certain TDP limit on the laptop similarly to how the steam deck works. Then it’s just a matter of finding what power limit the laptop can passively cool and capping it to that when I want the fan off. My understanding is that the steam deck tech works via the AMD protocols, which makes it fortunate that this laptop also uses AMD chips, so it should be possible.
Granted, performance wouldn’t be as high as a dedicated passive cooling solution, but you’d still have the flexibility to utilize active cooling when you want it.
2 Likes
That’s also without messing with the fan curve. If we can set custom fan curves, then that limit becomes higher. The hotter the CPU is, the more efficiently it can cool with the environment, so there’s likely extra gains to be had there if you’re comfortable playing with your CPU temp.
1 Like
+1, with an extra point of if you can live with having the fan on min you get a lot more performance, the difference between no airflow and any airflow is pretty huge.
It is definitely possible but someone has to write the drivers for it.
Some quick research found that software based tdp (and other stuff) adjustment software at least for linux doesn’t support the 7000 series jet so a bios option would definitely be nice.
Long term the software options are better cause you can change the limits on the fly but until then a bios option would be really nice.
EC is open source so we can do whatever we want there.
That also raises skin temperature issues, passive designs either throttle so much the whole device won’t get too hot or have complex partially insulated setups.
1 Like
That’s the FW13. Assuming the FW16 would be identical is disingenuous.
Well, that’s disappointing. Thanks for the info though!
I hadn’t thought of that, definitely something that’d require experimentation.
1 Like
Since the heatsink fins are right next to the expansion card bay, it might be possible to make an expansion bay that somehow acts to help with passive cooling? I’ve got no idea how one might get any good thermal conductivity between the fins on the computer and any setup in the expansion bay. Still, might be possible I suppose. But frankly… turning down performance settings is probably the easiest option tbh.
1 Like
I can confirm if you disable turbo & use powersave governor (auto-cpufreq), even at 100% cpu usage in all cores - in software compilation (i5-1135g7) the cpu temps don’t go above 65-70 degrees without attached fans in framework 13.
I was even able to play valorant (needed to limit 60fps), low graphics, and it went really good: cpu temps never hit above 76 degrees. Had to set CPU limit 99% in the power options in Windows. It automatically disables turbo.
So I believe its not bad to use laptop with fans disconnected, if you can just disable turbo.
Also if you want to try it out as well, note that in BIOS you have to keep these 3 Intel-SpeedStep settings so that software (auto-cpufreq) can control & apply the changes to the cpu, otherwise limiting doesn’t work (i.e. intel-pstate driver hardware builtin takes over and sometimes forces turbo when needed).
2 Likes
I may have simply had a different experience, but I have to admit that I have been buying laptops for years instead of desktop systems exactly BECAUSE laptops were dead silent - at least mine. It is quite difficult to get a silent desktop - a whole world in itself of passive cooling and getting RTX 3080s running on it - but my laptops were always silent in web browsing tasks, video watching, office, etc. My personal laptop was a razer blade, it was dead silent for 2 years for those tasks. So maybe the solution is to buy high-end performance laptops and turn fan control to a minimum setting. I think they should handle quite a lot without heavy fan use, even if they get older.
Long-term alternative is water cooling, finally coming around the corner for internal cooling only for laptops 
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M1GbIjrD9s&t=3s
PS: But yes, I agree, a laptop that is not dead silent with fans turned off entirely during light use is imo always a complete dealbreaker.
2 Likes
(Continuing my previous comment)
Here’s proof: Compiling Linux Kernel for over 10 mins, CPU temps 69, fans disconnected.
4 Likes
On the same note, a silent computer will eventually thermal throttle if they don’t thermal throttle when they’re brand new.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand that everyone has different noise level tolerances. That being said, my 12th gen 13 is silent 90% of the time and 100% of the time when I’m doing normal things (YT videos, browsing the web, document editing, etc.).
We also have to keep in mind the economy that Framework is working in right now. They are pretty expensive up front because they are smaller and don’t have the economy of scale that Apple or HP does. Most people who will buy or recommend any Framework laptop is going to want more performance than a Macbook Air when Frameworks cost over a grand.
I don’t understand this. What changes over time? Thermal paste? If so, you need to reapply every two year for every computer anyway, to make sure it’s optimal.
Yeah, that’s another dimension. I just wish.
But I really believe silent computers would be loved by millions of consumers, if offered. So this is probably a good opportunity for an ambitious brave manufacturer, like Framework.
Let’s see how many programmers will go for Macbook Air M2 15” the near future. This is a good indicator.
1 Like
At the beginning of the life of the computer it’s fine. Over time, fans get old and dirty. Actually, fans and exhausts getting dirty is pretty quick, typically in six months. Then you start to get more noise for the same RPM and it goes monotonically up. Sure you clean them up periodically, if you are a responsible user, but it’s daunting, also no matter how well you clean it doesn’t go back to ‘fresh condition’.
Another thing: When the computer is new, light load is easy for the computer, so it stays cool and fans don’t work too much, overtime software requirements increase but the computer stays the same, so it starts to work harder. After 5-6 years, the usual light tasks start to make the computer work hard, fans too. Now you might say, yeah, you should put it in the trash after 5 years, but I don’t feel that way, I’m the type who wants to use his computer for 10 years. Why should I waste money and damage the environment if there is another way?
1 Like
Thanks for the inputs guys, I appreciate the discussion, it was productive.
So I guess these are things that can be done:
- Framework can consider offering an optimized fanless option as a distinct product.
- Framework can consider offering a BIOS on existing products to kill fans or keep them very low profile, or a more sophisticated fan curve control, so the end user does not have to deal with it. Also, before the purchase user can be provided with fanless benchmarks of a given system, so he/she knows what to expect from the system without active cooling.
- Framework can consider using the expansion bay for a passive cooling option.
- Framework can offer a power-efficient CPU to complement the potential solutions listed above.
Let me know if I missed any.
1 Like