Mhmm. The Niche expansion card thread has 27k.
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nice. friendly!
of course i am in no position to do market research, but seems reasonable to me that the market for fixable laptops is populated by current users of fixable laptops, not mac users. maybe i’m wrong.
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Seconding. I have been stuck with Lenovo products for over 10 years now because I refuse to use a keyboard without TrackPoint. I would love to go with Framework but there is simply no chance I will buy one unless I have the option for a TrackPoint keyboard. (And, critically, real mouse buttons.) Otherwise I would have to place a Trackpoint Keyboard II on top of the actual keyboard to be able to use the thing at all.
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@ Anyone looking for a trackpoint, have you tried Toshiba, HP, or Dell pointer sticks (trackpoint)?
Even if Framework gets a pointer stick, it won’t be a Lenovo brand “trackpoint”. If you can settle for nothing less than a Lenovo level trackpoint then you should prepare to be with Lenovo forever. I’ve purposely made sure I never become dependent on trackpoint.
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@MJ1
Modern dell and hp trackpoints seem fine, as long as there are 3 mouse buttons (left-click, scroll, right-click).
IMHO, the biggest difference might be the style of the rubber nub (concave or convex), but the nubs can generally be replaced and/or swapped out just by pulling them off the keyboard. If framework uses a standard base, people can get alternative nubs even if they don’t like the one it comes with, including ones from other brands that use the same standard.
On windows there are likely driver differences between them, but I haven’t noticed any on Linux - they pretty much all perform the same and have the same configurable acceleration and such.
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Is there any standard base / stem? I really don’t think there is. Last time I looked, about a year ago, I saw no standard or universal fitting nubs. Each company has a different size and length of stem. Even different gen Thinkpads require different nubs. I looked specifically because I would like a non-red one for my Thinkpad, but the only option for other colors would be rather pricey 3d printed ones.
Here’s a chart of different sizes needed just for lenovo alone.
Note that these are only lenovo pointer sticks. HP, Dell, and Toshiba are all different from what I’ve seen.
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I love those pics. Any devs looking at this have their pick of what to go with based on what would work best for the amount of space available in the given framework model.
While it’s true that there isn’t a “universal” standard, your chart shows that there are plenty of different devices utilizing the same design. The 4mm and 3mm are particularly widespread, and the 3mm seems like it should be able to fit in a keyboard compatible with the framework models (given the max keyboard height being 4mm).
Even between those different sizes of nubs, it looks like there’s only 2, maybe 3 different stem sizes - big square and small square (the original 6mm is the only one that looks unique).
My point is that devs looking at this problem shouldn’t need to reinvent the wheel. No one expects it to be compatible with all of them - just have it compatible with an existing design for more nub options. One would think that’d be less work overall anyway (correct me if making a hardware solution from the ground up not inspired/based on anything is somehow easier).
If it’s easier to adopt a dell or hp design, that’d be fine too, as long as it has the essentials (3 physical buttons below the spacebar, and the nub between the g, h, and b keys)
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But stem height is also different for each. For example, you can’t swap between two different small square stems that are different heights. And note that the pictured ones are only from lenovo. HP, Dell, and Toshiba are all different from what I’ve seen. And may also be different for different models. I saw one company uses both square and round stems. It’s just a mess.
Point being, there won’t be swapping alternative nubs from other brands. If say you prefer the feel of lenovo.
If the dev doesn’t want to design one from the ground up, they can pick one and let people know which one it’s based on.
If it’s based on whatever is most popular and works, then I think that’s all anyone would ask for in a project like this.
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I keep finding this thread through search every time I’m trying to find out if Framework has the TrackPoint option yet, and it looks like it keeps going. I just wanted to say if this gets implemented, I will get a Framework without a second thought. I’ve been in the market for a new laptop for a long time now, but I don’t want to get another Lenovo with soldered-in RAM and abysmal expansion options, but I really need a TrackPoint to be efficient with my work.
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A reminder to people who are coming back to this thread after some time or who are new to the thread and haven’t read through all the past posts. The [RESPONDED] tag in the title is because Framework has responded here, letting everyone know that this is not something they are working on at this time. This means that while there is not going to be a first party solution anytime soon, discussion here should instead be focused on third party solutions.
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In theory, someone could design a custom CNC lower chassis (and keyboard controller PCB) to squeeze a Thinkpad X200 or X201 keyboard into a Framework 13 (though those are pushing it; if X200/X201 doesn’t fit you’d have to resort to the X60/X60s/X61 keyboard). I’m loosely looking into doing it.
Unfortunately the much more available T400s/T410/T420 keyboard is likely too wide to fit in a Framework 13.
There also might be some complications with drivers if you hack a Lenovo keyboard onto a Framework.
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Literally the ONE reason which has kept me from getting a Framework!
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Same here (still)!
I’m also on Manifold Markets and found a couple of prediction markets related to the Framework laptop, including one asking whether it will be possible to acquire or assemble a Framework laptop with a trackpoint.
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HP and Dell no longer make laptops with pointing sticks. Check their current laptop lines and you won’t find any. Toshiba is apparently now known as Dynabook, and they do have pointing sticks (AccuPoint) in their Portégé X30L and X40 models, but none of them are equipped with 3 mouse buttons between the keyboard and the trackpad, which makes their implementation incomplete.
I’m hoping for System76 to come through with the trackpoint-enabled keyboard in their upcoming in-house laptop (“Virgo”). They are already making progress and it’s great to see Lenovo face some competition. Maybe Framework will change its mind after this laptop is released.
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It goes certainly a long way showing how to do it, which parts work, how big the assembly is, etc.
I suppose with the modular input cover in Framework 16 it’s more realistic that a trackpoint could be provided as a module. Is there somebody looking into that?
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I pretty much had the FW13 ordered when I realized it doesn’t have a trackpoint. Didn’t even occur to me there might be people out there wanting laptops without one… Very unfortunate, there’s no way I’m going to use trackpad.
For an alternate perspective, I have had trackpoint devices on several of my laptop computers, and never used them, beyond a first test, and thinking oh, that’s nice.
I never used it enough to be comfortable in controlling the mouse with it.
I did appreciate the physical buttons that the device usually came with, however.
So, for me, a trackpoint, is a leave it device. Don’t really care whether a keyboard has it or not.
Appreciate the choice, though, for those that want it!
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ya me too i think the idea of adding a trackpoint to framework laptops would be really nice beacuse i really like the trackpoint but the design would be better if the design would be like the hp 9480m what i am using now
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I’m uh also here to ask if we could get a trackpoint added keyboard. I’d like to buy it!
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