I have a pretty standardized test plan at this point, especially since I am testing something with enough external variables it is important to keep as many variables at possible under control. Same youtube videos, same local files and so on.
Well good thing a large portion of my test list is video playback XD
6.7 rc3 alone (with stock tlp config) Made absolutely no difference in my tests.
On another unrelated datapoint, hardware accelerated video playback in firefox is somehow a lot worse in wayland mode than in xwayland mode.
@Adrian_Joachim Did you apply the eep-precores patch which didn’t make the rc3 merge window. There is a v11 which applies cleanly now with the other pstate fixups?
https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-kselftest/patch/20231129065437.290183-8-li.meng@amd.com/
BTW the powerstat tests above didn’t include the epp pref core patches.And wasn’t particularily optimized (it was actually absed on the sentry-fsync kernel ) It just happened to be the kernel I had installed at the time to show TLP vs PPD differences are negligible.
Gotta be honest I have no idea how to apply a kernel patch. It’s just bone stock 6.7rc3.
Yeah I think it’s pretty well established now that the settings matter more than the thing that sets them.
Apart from the hardware decoder thing the power usage looks pretty good already at this point.
I just can’t believe the hardware decoder in a 14nm intel chip from 2017 is somehow almost twice as efficient as one on a 4nm tsmc chip from 2023, so there must be some software issue there.
For reference the current rawhide kernel 6.7-rc3 WITH epp-prefcore patches + pstate fast notify fix + cros_ec_lpc applied on the same userspace FC39 and tuning as above tests - is significantly better for me:
Dell has 1165g7 and LPDDR4x RAM (16GB)
FW has 7840u and the Crucial 2x16 DDR5 kit
Brightness set to 30% on both (they both have the same peak brightness, so levels should be similar)
Both are on battery. The FW has a larger 61Wh battery, the Dell a 50Wh one.
The difference is quite striking, with the Dell predicted to outlast the AMD by a good margin, while being at 47% charge VS 74 of the AMD.
Notice the comparatively crazy high temps on the AMD (over 50 VS below 40).
OS is the same, same level of updates. Dell is even running Vorta + Teams in the background (I forgot at the time of testing), which the FW isn’t.
Also, with intel I used to be able to confirm it was using HW accelerated decoding using intel_gpu_top…what’s the equivalent for AMD?
The situation on AMD needs to improve, or all the noise about the better node process and efficiency is gonna stay a rumor in my book.
I haven’t used Fedora in a long time, and did so briefly out of curiosity, but it shouldn’t really matter. The KDE spin is basically Fedora with KDE Plasma as the default DE with the relevant packages installed.
It’s the same concept as Ubuntu vs Kubuntu - the latter is exactly the same as the former with a change in the default package set for the installer. You can turn one into the other by manually [un]installing the relevant packages yourself.
Other distributions, such as Debian, instead offer you the choice at the point of installation.
As with most things, it’s a matter of preference. I don’t think you can make a universal claim for either of these.
Plasma offers a lot more customisation options bundled into the DE itself instead of relying on “plugins”. It has a more “traditional” UX in terms of look and feel and is arguably far more flexible for customising it to your needs.
Gnome, on the other hand, uses a slightly different user design philosophy and focuses on a predefined and, arguably, simplified and streamlined user experience. This means you may have to rely on additional plugins to achieve the customisation you might want if the functionality you require is not provided. Gnome has more of an Apple-esque approach to “our way or the highway” which is okay for the people who like the design philosophy, but perhaps not suitable for those that prefer to have more control over their UX setup.
There’s very strong feelings on both sides as to which is “superior” (depending on who you ask) but In any case, you can’t go wrong with either - try both, maybe in a virtual machine if you prefer, and see which one you like more.
This is a very good point. There should be no such thing as a particular desktop environment is “not supported”. Either a whole distro is “approved” or none of it is. Gnome should have no higher precedence over KDE Plasma and vice versa. Installing Plasma alongside Gnome or vice versa serves no purpose other than adding unnecessary bloat to your system and perhaps even worse - potentially cause conflicts between the two DEs background services such as those in charge of power management policies.
You would be correct that the “core” settings of a distribution would be the same. However, different desktop environments would have different background services (e.g. power management as mentioned) where there may be differences in default policies. This means that under default configuration things like power consumption could be higher in one DE vs the other.
Here’s a vendor agnostic tool for this purpose.
Thanks Mario,
it turns out Firefox is NOT using HW accelerated decoding after all (unless it’s that 2%…)
You need to opt Firefox into it in the about:config.
What are the test conditions here?
Yeah I think something is fucky there, for 720 youtube playback mine uses signifficantly less, with and without hw decoding (actually even less without hw decoding cause the hw decoder does seem to have excessive power use at this point). it might be teams being teams or something though.
You can use amdgpu_top to see if it uses hw decoding.
Also boy I had to do a tripple take, before I saw powertop I though you were on windows XD
Yep 2% about matches 720p youtube playback. without hw decoding it’s a flat 0.
But even if it wasn’t, 720p youtube playback with software decoding uses only a bit over 3W above idle.
What is your power absorption in similar conditions? I think I’ve tried pretty much everything I could easily try (short of changing kernels and stuff).
PPD vs tlp didn’t have a significant impact.
I’m willing to install a different distro recommended by someone with low power absorption, just to be able to make comparisons and understand if I’m facing HW or SW issues.
I’m also really tempted to ask FW if they’d accept an exchange of my board + wifi adapter for the similarly priced Intel one + AX card (I think it’d be the i7-1360P).
But then again, what if both AMD’s and Intel’s current gen chips are not optimized for Linux yet, and I end up in the same situation again?
Would that be a mistake (assuming it’s feasible at all)?
I’m stressing out a bit because I spent 1.6kEuros on this and in crucial areas (battery life, performance) it’s similar or inferior to the outgoing XPS. My return window closes in less than a week.
I was looking for this, but ccould only find the instructions for Fedora here. Checking the corresponding settings (Compositing: WebRender, HARDWARE_VIDEO_DECODING: default available) make me think this should be enabled…?
For reference the current rawhide kernel 6.7-rc3 WITH epp-prefcore patches + pstate fast notify fix + cros_ec_lpc applied on the same userspace FC39 and tuning as above tests - is significantly better for me
@jwp, I’d like to give this a try. I’m fairly new to the Linux world but do I:
I believe I need to turn off secure boot in the BIOS for my custom kernel to load, is that right?
So what i got from skimming through this topic, Kernel version is the thing that does the most. I used kde neon as first try out on my newly arrived amd 13’'…apparently it runs with 6.2 which seems a tad outdated
@japsy ; one of the reasons I don’t want to post any 'how-to’s as my own use patterns are NOT what I would ever consider a ‘normal’ users ; and what I do to my systems personally for hobbyist/play is NOT what I would ever want to support or recommend in any sort of professional setting. I’m happy to try and re-create issues/and chjime in when i’ve noticed something with my play/experiments.
Having said that ; this patch applies cleanly to the fc39 6.6 kernel - and includes the current amd-prefcores patches/pstate fixes and uip timmer fixups as well as the EC cros lpc patch. The rtc-cmos ID fix is in mainline 6.6 so when it graduates from updates-testing to updates you’ll get it).
You should be able to follow : Testing Patches :: Fedora Docs
It’s in F39 stable already, since Wednesday or so.
With 20% display, wifi connected, bt on and everything else off:
So far I am pretty sure there is something wrong with the hw accelerator, it accelerates just fine, hell it does 8k 60 without breaking a sweat but something with the power management if probably borked rn.
Thanks Adrian for this data point.
I seem to have a couple of W more than you on the first couple cases. No way I can idle at 3.5.
Which distro are you on? PPD or TLP?
