USB-C longevity is becoming a big problem!

General Topics
46

Ah, I see. I followed your link and read the official docs.

You are correct in strict nomenclature or the officially-intended/designed function of the clips in question (blue vs. purple). Your point is taken.

However, I was referring to the actual, real-world function of the clips in question, which is that the purple clips do luckily serve to retain the plug in the socket (even if that is not their intended purpose) such that for the most part, even with the ears (indicated by red arrows) are worn completely off, the plug is retained well enough in the socket that it maintains full electrical connection on all lines (I observed this while attaching an external hard drive, which involves the data pins, not just power). It is not enough retention to handle slight disturbances to the cable.

I hearted your post–thanks for the explanation.

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47

You’re absolutely correct that the official spec sets the mechanical requirements high enough that we consumers should be very pleased, but I strongly suspect that many manufacturers of USB C sockets are cutting corners to save costs.

Think about it: the reason Apple took that shortcut is that it’s just so easy to simply use the substrate that the data+power pins are etched on and not figure out how to get metal to go alongside the sides of the tab to form the ears. They’d probably have to use some kind of glue to glue the metal onto the non-conductive PCB tab. Either that or use a metal so rigid it would not bend over time or with accidents.

Also, even if they did go to this trouble, there is the question of the quality of the metal. The (indicated in blue) clips inside the plug are probably spring steel; spring steel is probably going to be harder than whatever metal they use for the ears, especially if they choose a cheap, soft metal that they can easily injection-mold rather that a rigid, harder metal that won’t deform or wear prematurely.

My strong suspicion is that in the real world, we consumers are running into many sub-standard USB C plugs and sockets around the world. Certainly my end-users are.

Thus, the real question of this entire thread becomes, though the Framework mainboard’s USB C ports may be rated to 10,000 cycles, are they really capable of achieving 10,000 cycles?

We know it’s not true for the Macbook, but what if Framework the company is buying connectors from a manufacturer that is selling them sub-standard connectors? Framework might not even know they are being lied to, if they are being lied to. (I am not claiming that they are, only that they might be.)

This may be where Apple benefits. Because they are just one company and they have very strong power to accept or reject Lightning ports from their OEMs, it is possible that the Lightning connector could be rated to lower mechanical specs than the USB C connector, but in the real world, we experience the Lightning connector as being superior because Apple is in a position to police its OEMs for quality.

Put another way, this could be where the “Universal” in Universal Serial Bus" is a weakness–the many different makers of connectors, all with an economic incentive to cut corners and no strong enforcer of the official standard, results in a real-world situation where consumers experience high failure rates.

Anyway, to the OP, I personally I do not think we have to be concerned even if the USB C sockets on the mainboard are sub-standard. We are insulated quite a bit by the expansion cards. It would be a very unusual end user to get so many cycles unplugging/plugging expansion cards on their soldered-to-the-motherboard USB C ports that they would wear out.

49

I preferred the Apple Lightning cable. I am probably the only one in existence. Faster charge, always connected. I am using magnetic 24 pin on the framework and as long as you let the magnet pull the connector on it works all the time. if you put it on you have to fiddle with it.

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50

Now I know it’s not me. The external drive on my macbookpro, has two volume partitions. Every so often I would just see two alerts all about how I should eject the disk before disconnecting it. I didn’t touch it. Kept happening.

Then I got the new desktop, with mostly USB-C connectors. And I was getting the same thing with the external disk on that machine, which was now connected via usb-c to usb3; five partitions. So I’d get five alert boxes scolding me about ejecting first. Sometimes it keeps happening and I get those alerts all down the side of the screen. What was going on… searched, someone suggested the cable(s) were loose or something.

Then, one day, while using the machine, I ducked below the desk to fiddle with some unrelated cables. When I got back up, five alerts again. Nailed it!

so thanks for this article! Saved my sanity.

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51

Hey, you know, sometimes I’ve gotten flakey or loose plugs (before usbc) to work by taking pliers and bending something ever so slightly. A little more friction, a little more pressure on a connection. But it doesn’t seem to help me with usb c. Maybe I just don’t know what to bend?

52

Most of my phones over the past decade have died because of USB socket issues. So I’ve been using usb c magnetic adaptors on my USB-C phone for quite a while (search on Amazon) They prevent dust getting in the socket and I never take them out and re-insert them. Problem solved. No good for the Framework laptop though but I’m rarely changing modules and its not sitting in my pocket gathering dust

53

Revisiting this thread, Dell has apparently made their USB C ports modular and solderless per this article. Looks pretty nice!

Given that I just had to entirely replace a RODE NT-USB Mini microphone due to a USB C port that broke off the PCB, I would love to see this solderless USB C port idea take off across all electronics that can be serviced by the moderately tech savvy DIYer.

If the motherboard-mounted USB C ports in the Framework were solderless and replaceable like the Dell, that would completely alleviate all fears of those ports wearing out.

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54

That’s the whole point of the expansion cards?

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55

Dell’s route is smaller at board level. FL still has the port on the board, less wear & tear…if you don’t swap often, but also hot-swappable.

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56

What Second_Coming said.

It is possible to break or wear out the USB C ports soldered directly to the Framework 13/16 motherboard. When that happens, you have to swap the whole motherboard out.

I’m not saying the motherboard’s USB C ports are likely to be worn out or broken, but if you were inserting an expansion card and it twisted in the slot or you used a bit too much force, or something else were caught in between the expansion card and the motherboard, it could damage or break the USB C port on the motherboard.

Or if you’re constantly swapping out the expansion cards and exceed the real-world connect/disconnect cycle lifespan of the motherboard’s USB C port(s), which might happen to be lower than the rated/promised lifespan.

With the Dell approach, you could swap out the USB C port on the motherboard if it breaks or wears out, allowing you to keep the motherboard (unless you really mangled the port, twisting or smashing it so hard it breaks the screw-down solderless USB C port through the motherboard edge).

57

We sold alot of lenovo laptops that only had USBC power connectors. Needless to say they all wore out and you could no longer charge the laptop or power the laptop. So the laptop was a brick. We no longer sell them. We still actively search out for good laptops with Non USB power source. But becoming harder to find. You will notice the latest macbooks no longer use USBC to power and have gone back to apple magsafe connector. I am afraid to say that the USBC connector is not really suitable for laptops. I will predict the good old round power connector will be back , or you have dual power sources like some of the HP laptops do. In any case any manufacturer that goes down the USBC only on laptops is in for a lawsuit for as their products will fail. Someone mentioned the USBC module, that would be th eonly way around it where youc an easily replace the USBC socket. Christ even make it plug in so you can change it yourself without having to open the laptop.

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58

Magsafe is a term originally introduced by apple to describe the wired charging connection with a magnetic connector, i believe first applied on the intel core macbook. Only years later, I believe with the introduction of iPhone 11 or 12, there was a wireless charging solution introduced under the same name. The recent macbooks are still using a form (I believe it is the 3rd or 4th generation by now) of the original wired magsafe connector, and recent iPhones still use the wireless variant.

62

I hope you’re right (that microsolderers can fix the mobo easily, unlike with smartphones).

It’s a good suggestion/idea to anyone who accidentally breaks or wears out their USB C ports on the FW mobo. Maybe someone who has can try to have it microsoldered and report back to us as to the success?

64

Look, we all know microsoldering services exist.

What we really need to know now is whether it’s practical and economical.

How about you buy one of the Large Mystery Boxes, get a broken motherboard, replace the USB C ports, test the repair by testing the PCB traces, and let us know whether it can be done affordably (for the consumer)? Document the time it takes and the total cost to do just the microsoldering portion. Showing us ebay listings doesn’t mean this repair is feasible or economical.

66

Agreed on the flex cable.

I get your point about the bench fee, but I’m wondering if the FW13 or FW16 mobos might be more of a challenge to repair than the bigger brands. (Probably not, but if it costs $100 to do, and a used FW13 mobo with equivalent specs is $150 to $600 depending on CPU, maybe it’ll be easier to just buy a mobo and slap it in myself.

I can buy a brand new mobo for my AMD AI 5 340 for $449 right now. Let’s say I wear out the USB C port in 4 years by swapping expansion cards over and over. By then, the exact same mobo might be as low as $100 used–not that much more than $60.

More likely, I’d shrug and say, “might as well buy the latest mobo available at the time for $500 than pay $60 to repair the port.”

On top of that, upgrading the mobo means I don’t have to be without my laptop. I can keep using the FW13 with the broken port until I receive the new mobo. If I send the broken mobo in for repair, I will not have a laptop to use while it is gone. (I just went through hell a month ago where my only laptop died and I had to use my desktop for a month.)

So here’s my prediction. Most FW owners that have a USB C port on the mobo fail will use it as an excuse to upgrade the mobo to a newer model. They won’t bother repairing the broken USB C port.

This would be an argument in favor of FW designing flex cables or easily-replaceable USB C ports (no soldering like the Dell ones). This would encourage repairs and keep broken mobos out of landfills. That person who is on the fence about upgrading the mobo might opt to do the repair himself/herself with a flex-cable USB C port.

Finally, I re-iterate that I don’t believe the USB C ports on the mobos will wear out as the OP fears. In other words, I think this worry is a non-issue.

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67

Being an owner of Google Pixel phones, I’ve had nothing but problems with the USB-C ports on two of my devices and my mother’s just failing to hold the cable overtime. I have to do a double take to make sure the connection on my phone is firm or else my phone won’t charge overnight.

Meanwhile, if I ever drive my wife’s car to use android auto on a trip, I have to make sure the phone remains still or else it disconnects and I am having to fix the connection while speeding down the road. (x- x’)

I love the convenience of using a single cable for my devices, but I do worry this tech is not made to last like a lot of things nowadays.

68

Curious. I haven’t run into that on any of my phones, or my wife’s. I’ve had my current OnePlus N10 (one of their really cheap models) since January of 2021. I’ve also had two ThinkPad T480 laptops that charged via USB-C, one for six years before I gave it to a friend last month, and no such problems with them either.

My mother-in-law did have a problem like that, on a previous really-cheap flip-phone. I don’t recall whether it was USB-C though, I think it was an older micro-USB type.

Maybe you connect/disconnect them significantly more often than I do? Or maybe the Pixel uses cheaper USB-C ports that don’t last?

69

Pixel 3a, 4a, and 8a to be exact, I imagine Google just using the same ports for their higher end models.

To be fair, on a minimum I plug them in once a night for charging, and the occasional car ride that is several hours long. That’s about it.

70

Hm, I only plug in the OnePlus N10 every two or three days to charge, and don’t use the USB port otherwise. I did plug one of the ThinkPads in every time I used it though. :person_shrugging:

71

I’ve run into that on my phone.

I was very surprised when I finally discovered the cause. Pocket lint. Or rather, some combination of lint and random debris.

I was quite surprised because I had examined the back of the port under magnification, and it was not as noticeable as I would have thought. What I guess to happened was that any small amount of debris that found its way in would get pushed to the back each time it was plugged in to charge. So day by day, bit by bit, more gets pushed to the back there. Until there is enough of a packed-in layer of to prevent the plug from going fully in for the latching hooks to click securely. At which point, you push it in more firmly to get it to click well. So you get a very firmly packed layer. And also packed completely flat, so looking in, it wasn’t obvious that it was not just that back of the USB shell. Except it was grayish rather than dark black.

After getting it out, it was then surprising to see how little the amount was that it took to make the plug really bad. Time-to-get-a-new-phone bad.

A thin plastic toothpick might work too.

Or if you can’t clean it & need to get a new phone, I’d suggest one of those plug covers that they sell for cheap.

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