As above this topic has got a bit long in the tooth, though still valid points are made.
However @d_p post above seems to only address the response they have as unsatisfactory, which has support form others.
The issue in this topic is that repeated complaints are of no use to resolving the issue of the short ‘no under use’ scenario that can occur.
Many people may not every have such a problem.
So if the issue has become one of complainig about Framework and feedback it may be more usefull to open another topic ~ my reasoning being I hijacked this Topis with the OPs OK and ammended the title.
My idea was to get data on users so I could better write to Framework with my concerns.
I had no intention of writting to Framework via the forum but privately to get authorative data. Some of that is in this topic thanks to others queries to support.
So I ask other please do not extend this topic into a complaint legend about the lack of or failure of Framework to respond, but please do provide details of your experience with the laptop.
It’s a new product, as is the Fairphone. I would not encourage people to buy without letting them know of some of the problems I have or those alledged on the forums.
But as in the case of the Fairphone if you want to support Fairtrade in mining etc. then the Fairphone is the only way to go. They got fair trade gold on the market, so I can live with a less that magic phone.
Like wise, it would have been nice to know about the CMOS battery and co-incident Intel gen 11 bug.
It’s the intel buf that is really the problem, having to remove the ML 1220 etc.
Maybe they can be held responsible or did they tell all the manufacturers that were going to use them.
Lines of thought are never straight and the truth is only true when accompanied by lies.
Basically I use my workstation for 99% of my work. So my Framework sits in my laptop bag (usually 80% charge) for sometimes 3 days or over a week before I use it.
Now before my 12 year old Dell E6410 (I used it as a “I don’t care about this old thing” laptop) would fire up even if I left it for a month or more. Never had to think about it on 2010 tech.
As far as I’m concerned I just want that basic usability with my Framework. Not having to diary in 24 hour charge periods and pre-job boot checks.
At the end of the day I may just try and live with it. But I won’t be recommending Framework going forward. Had Framework said “Yes we have found this to be an issue and we confirm we will be working on a firmware update or fix to mitigate this!” I would be more on board. The firmware fix etc. may not have worked but it would have been nice to see more confidence and affirmative action from Framework till we got to that point.
Instead, reading between the lines it feels like “Oh sh*t, they have found that bug we knew about months ago and now want us to fix it! Trouble is we are now fully committed to getting the 12th gen stuff out! This is the last thing we need so downplay it and hope they go away!”
I still think there are other things they could do rather than just fob us off. I’m just waiting for the fix to appear as “Well if you purchase a new £700 12th gen board the issue is fixed!”
Yes I can can’t/won’t be replicating that anytime soon and ‘over a week’ ~ I would expect from specs that 10 days shouldn’t be an issue.
On the Dell front - let’s not go there. I have 20 year old 4150 with original battery and it switches on with a warning - etc. time error and so on. Not really a problem.
I am thinking of a fix which I will present to Framework, before I suggest it here as it’s just theoretical and I don’t want to try it as I have no problem yet.
I mean, could it be possible that folks who are having this problem often are just dealing with a rechargeable battery that has drained too many times and for too long and just doesn’t have anywhere close to its factory capacity? In this case getting a new battery should do the trick.
I really get how this is frustrating to folks who just want their laptop to work.
I do think Framework is doing the best they can. On the one hand they designed a product based on Intel’s spec sheets, and now find that there is an Intel bug which exacerbates one of their design decisions. It isn’t fair to Framework, but this is the situation.
I would ask those of you who are not frustrated beyond your threshold to remember the bigger picture. At least give Framework a chance to address the problem by sending you a new battery or mainboard (where warranted).
To reiterate, the 2 framework laptops I have to do not have this problem. I do use mine kind of regularly though.
My apologies in advance for only skimming, and not thoroughly reading all 210 posts here, but…
Would it be feasible for an end user to switch in a non-rechargeable coin cell into the OEM holder? If so, what are the exact makes and model numbers that are compatible? If not, why not?
Same for me. Same use case pattern as all of my previous personal / hobby laptops but never had an issue in ~20 years of laptops.
My feelings exactly. To me, the responses from support seemed so dismissive and unhelpful. They also seemed to hide the fact it was a known issue.
It’s not actually confirm fixed in the 12th Gen but I’m sure it will be mitigated. Unfortunately even this path is not currently possible. Support will not help swap an 11th Gen board for a 12th Gen. Not for free or for an upgrade charge. The 12th Gen board is not order able right now either. You could get in line for a complete 12th Gen laptop but why would you want to given how the Framework warranty and support means so little?
If you have to buy a new laptop after a few months to get basic functionality we had 20 years ago, how is that better for sustainability / repairability versus buying from one of the big brands?
My machine is basically brand new as I’ve only used it for a handful of hours or so. It shouldn’t need replacement. Framework confirmed that even a new 11th Gen main board wouldn’t fix the issue. My guess is the factory capacity is too small given the drain in the design or the RTC circuit design has much higher drain than other machines and does not have a path to charge from main battery, only AC.
Uhh- I have a bit of a grievance with this post, this bug doesn’t make it unrepairable and only affects a limited number of people, many people who have read through this thread aren’t quite as enraged as you… Although there should be some backlash, I don’t see this as a big problem, much less a product-ending one.
Potentially it’s a bug laying in wait for every Framework user. We’ll just never know. However, as more and more buy in the problem could just get more wider.
The issue is Framework just appear to not be all that interested in it.
One of these things that “it’s never that important…till it happens to you!” If you bought a brand new top of the line car and left it on your drive for a week and it wouldn’t start and the manufacturer/dealer said “Ah well that’s how it works, just charge it up for a day” You’d probably not be too chuffed and would expect more. My ‘Framework Car’ has the equivalent of 400 miles on the clock and already has an issue that affects me and my usage of said product.
I can live with wobbly hinges and I got around hibernation/sleep issues by just turning them off so I’m already making big adjustments for this product that I have not had to with previous ones.
As mentioned maybe you have a faulty laptop as I have none of the issues mentioned.
But again going on about your personal experience with Framework and the item you received is not relevant to the topic, which only about the ML 1220 battery and if and how users get on with it.
I.E. A place to gather info on the issue not a place to complain about your experience with Framework etc.
There is some good info here for potential buyers. I know I went to that sub and read what folks were saying before I placed my order. Good to get an idea of the types of issues owners are experiencing but for me, the type of support and company you are choosing to do business with. It appears some very reasonable comments from those affected are being downvoted. Reddit downvote system can be a real curse when “that doesn’t affect me” = downvote when it should be used for comments that do or do not contribute to the discussion.
It looks like a framework employee has commented on the thread (with the infamous nrp quote) but more interestingly it looks like Louis Rossmann commented in there this morning. Maybe we’ll get more technical eyes on this after all.
In the grand scheme of things…this isn’t a showstopper. It’s not like people would die from it (Ford’s recent recall, for example).
The 11th gen mainboard will not be getting a recommendation from me. 12th gen is pending for release and reviews. So, what Framework has going for it really is in the future…we shall see.
In the meantime, those have the 11th gen mainboard either use it without issue, use it with work arounds, change usage patterns or sell it.
Guess we’ve done our part as early adopters, backers, supporter. Guess it is what it is now, a bit of a sour aftertaste for some, or not an issue if you didn’t hit it (yet).
Not happy with the overall timeliness and handling of this issue. No company can be great at everything…pick your poison, it seems.
I’m not even sure what to make of this particular issue. Why haven’t we heard reports of similar power up issue from other laptops of the 11th Gen chip? This seems to be so Framework specific.
If you want to support reparability, sustainability, minimal e-waste…etc…just wait for the next release…then decide. For those who have the 11th gen board ‘recently’…if you’re within the return / refund Window…maybe do that and see what the 12th ‘improvements’ are first before jumping onto this bandwagon.
“sell it” - Support doesn’t even want to handle this 11th gen board issue with a 10 foot pole… LoL.
I don’t see that the future is relevant it’s just a replica of past thinking. It’s just that some people’s usage doesn’t suit the CMOS battery setup in their here and now.
If the Framework laptop was bought and then put away for a month at a time then there may well be a rigmarole in powering up; as even if the CMOS battery is fully charged it is unlikely to last beyond 3 weeks, although it may, see above someone has no problems after a month.
The issue seems to be usage unsuitable for the design or a faulty laptop. In the later a faulty main board or CMOS battery will be replaced by Framework
