# Want Framework, buying ThinkPad instead šŸ™ **URL:** \ **Category:** General Topics\ **Created:** [August 24, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/want-framework-buying-thinkpad-instead/56667 "2024-08-24T14:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 6
**Author:** ![new23d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ed8c4c/32.png) [@new23d](https://community.frame.work/u/new23d)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://community.frame.work/t/want-framework-buying-thinkpad-instead/56667/6 "2024-08-24T19:43:25Z")
Thanks for your detailed answer. I agree with all your points - and itā€™s the sum of these thatā€™s swayed my choice this time. And yes, I just have to let Lenovo let me down one more time (they have in the past) and Iā€™ll be back! For clarity, on the use of Fn for Home and End keys, I use them in a sequence already and depressing another key is impractical. Iā€™ve attached a list of threads by other people whoā€™d like to see these dedicated keys too. The Up and Down arrow keys are smaller than the Left and Right keys. On TPs, they are similarly sized and larger - easily depressible by my fingers anyway. Some of the threads Iā€™ve linked to below also talk about that. I witnessed the USB and keyboard woes myself, and there are too many threads here reporting on that too. A random example is [this one](http://community.frame.work/t/left-arrow-and-f9-keys-stop-working/53626/6). Iā€™m gathering a pattern here which is if the FW laptop is taken out and about town, these things happen. If itā€™s left on a desk, then itā€™s fairly stable. The 1200px vertical was an alternate example where scaling wouldnā€™t have to be used. The reason why such a large resolution (1920px vertical) in the new FW13 screen made certain Linux users happy was that a flat 2x zoom could be applied. And I donā€™t necessarily care about the aspect ratio, but do care about being able to read and still have sufficient real estate (pixels) to do all my work. The FW16 has it well balanced though! My use of an Ethernet port is that I do deal with a lot of networking equipment and sometimes need dual routes out of the machine (one going to management of the router, for example.) Again, I can easily live without a fully flush port but itā€™s an interesting observation to make that even FW16 couldnā€™t squeeze one in. Home & End key discussions: > [@Keyboard arrow keys](http://community.frame.work/t/keyboard-arrow-keys/2275): > > Half-height arrow keys are a dealbreaker for me and a number of other people. Usable page-up/page-down keys are also important to me. Page navigation, folks. I was ready to click ā€œbuy nowā€ until I noticed the keyboard layout. > [@Full arrow keys on 16 inch keyboard](http://community.frame.work/t/full-arrow-keys-on-16-inch-keyboard/30558): > > Hello lovely people I look for a Framework laptop since quite some while, and the new 16 inch version does look amazing Still, looking at the keyboard, it pains me to see that you went with the half-sized arrow keys. Thats a deal breaker, and not only for me: [Keyboard arrow keys](http://community.frame.work/t/keyboard-arrow-keys/2275) I understand that you have good reasons for it, and that you cant easily add the option for a fully customized keyboard. Two options, that I can see: Full sized arrow keys by default Full sized arrow keys on a commā€¦ > [@A "numpad" module for full arrow keys](http://community.frame.work/t/a-numpad-module-for-full-arrow-keys/33052): > > Am I alone in wanting a keyboard module, that also takes up the numpad slot, with full sized arrow keys? It could work as a keyboard without any arrow keys, pg up/down, etc and a ā€œnumpadā€ module with these keys. Do you think this would be available on release, or possibly a fast follow up? Iā€™m on tenterhooks for the keyboard deep dive, but worry this may be the factor that makes me go elsewhere, or start to learn about 3d printing. > [@FN key, Arrow keys, Sales to Europe, Full Ubuntu support](http://community.frame.work/t/fn-key-arrow-keys-sales-to-europe-full-ubuntu-support/6863): > > Little story time ā€¦ =) I know i cant get one yet, but got excited a little when i saw this on LTT. Im a web dev on desktop who would like to get used to a notbook again, but whenever i searched for one i dropped the idea just because: the damn FN key. I am a keyboard user - so mouse clicky clicky only if no way around. So ā€¦ I would REALLY like to be able to get a keyboard without ā€œthat \*\*\*\*\*\* keyā€ =) Im so used to standard keyboard - no FN key, large enter key, usual arrow key placement, Hā€¦ > [@Panel for full size arrow keys / insert / delete etc](http://community.frame.work/t/panel-for-full-size-arrow-keys-insert-delete-etc/38803): > > I (and probably many others) donā€™t have much use for a numpad module, but would love a module that houses the keys usually found between the numpad and regular keys on full size keyboards. That is, the area housing the full sized arrow keys, insert, delete and such. Very useful both for editing documents, gaming, development and similar. PS! Would also prefer if the Windows / Super key was replaced by for example the framework logo or similar, not needing separate keyboards for linux vs windowsā€¦ > [@What happened to the man who invented these arrow keys?](http://community.frame.work/t/what-happened-to-the-man-who-invented-these-arrow-keys/35317): > > Did he have a difficult upbringing? Is there a way to get a keyboard with regular arrows? Some way to shrink that big SHIFT button? > [@Keyboard Inverted T arrow layout](http://community.frame.work/t/keyboard-inverted-t-arrow-layout/38255): > > I absolutely hate the arrow keyboard layout with all the keys in the same row. Itā€™s not confortable. The ā€œhalf-heightā€ keys are also not good. I would LOVE to have a keyboard with a full size inverted T arrow layout for the 15 inch laptop. Specifically for the LATIN AMERICAN Spanish layout. Pleaaase. Thanks RZ > [@Full size for Up/Down cursor keys (Laptop 13)](http://community.frame.work/t/full-size-for-up-down-cursor-keys-laptop-13/51366/3): > > Iā€™m not entirely certain what the suggestion is here. Making the right shift key shorter would seem to have only disadvantages: The shift key would be unlike any other key on the keyboard, except, I suppose the far less frequently used function keys? But because oneā€™s fingers need to bend down to hit shiftā€”I usually press shift essentially with part of my fingernailā€”it is harder to hit precisely than function keys, where oneā€™s fingers extend upward. It would certainly be a different height ā€¦ > [@Better keyboard layout](http://community.frame.work/t/better-keyboard-layout/4834/3): > > I came to post a thread asking for keyboard layout with full size arrow keys too! My favourite layout has full height arrow keys, and a column of home, end, page up, page down on the right edge of the keyboard, rather like that dodgy amazon laptop linked. No one uses the right shift key (thereā€™s even memes about it), feel free to tuck a 1x1 shift left or right of the ā€˜upā€™ key. The Lenovo Yoga 700 14ā€™ (which was the last laptop I purchased) is another good example. Or the Asus EeePC ā€¦ --- _[View the full topic](https://community.frame.work/t/want-framework-buying-thinkpad-instead/56667)._