Why is the FW16 so expensive?

I don’t think there’s much left to say. I don’t think you can deny that yes, from a $/spec comparison, it’s expensive. I think the argument that upgrading vs. buying new may not even save you money is also a valid one, depending on the timing and pricing. But all of this is really kind of missing the point.

Ignoring the obvious economy of scale argument, you’re paying “extra” for something that the Alienwares and Legions don’t even offer, making any of these comparisons not really valid. If that’s not important to you, then yeah, why pay for it? If it’s just about money and performance, then yeah, the math probably doesn’t lead you to a Framework right now.

Hopefully, someday, as long as there are enough of us fortunate enough to be able to afford to keep paying for an idea, the price will come down low enough to directly compete with the disposables. I think there’s good reason to believe that we’ll see that day, and I can’t wait to be high-fiving you all in the preorder threads!

*Edit to clarify that I don’t actually think we’re overpaying, or just paying for an ideal. I do think there is actual value in the modular design, not just for ease of repairs and upgrades, but also for customizing, configuring, and reconfiguring. Add in the openness of the design, giving you even more flexibility to hack it to all hell and opening the door for third party mods that you’ll never see for an Asus or Razer, and ya, you’re buying a lot more than the specs. But if you don’t actually want or need any of that, then yeah, no real reason to pay for it.

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Ha. That’s a fun name for all the non-upgradeable, and hard to repair laptops.

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I learned that hanging out here! I used to be nicer cuz I’ve performed successful surgery on MacBooks as late as 2017, but I’m not settling for that nonsense anymore!

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Repairable isn’t what makes me pay the extra here. It’s nice, though some of us don’t require much help - but this open design approach probably lets others approach their own repairs without prior experience. That’s a good thing for the world, I think.

For me it’s the component upgrades, and the personalisation options they already have after only 3 years trading. These products are like little desktop PCs you can carry. That’s awesome, and it’s what’s worth the extra for me. Other brands offer products better in other areas. Upgrades and repairs is this one’s shtick.

If that’s not for you, cool. We’re all different people in our own situations. You do what suits you.

Oh, and enjoying the community. Some pretty crazy hardware modders are lively in here and I’m learning stuff just chatting, it’s pretty cool.

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I would not say that. The upgradable parts are expensiv too. So it is quite difficult to “justify” the price with that point. Paying 500$ for the cheapest version of 13th Gen CPU is quite a lot. If you are a poweruser and you want the big one you have to pay 1050$, which is about a price you can get a full laptop, with screen, new graphics card, new battery, also new CPU, new SSD and so on. I really don’t want to know, how much you have to pay for a 16" CPU Upgrade. Probably 700-1000$ for the smallest one.

Actually in my opinion the framework laptops are only a thing, if you take the diy edition. Otherwise it is just way overprices (and even the diy editions are sth, you have to “justify” yourself with things like “its upgradeable” and so on).

I mean look on the 16" Version. If you want 32GB, 1TB and the graphics card + Windows (normal configuration in for prousers) you have to pay 2500$ :smiley: That’s ridiculous. It has not even a touchscreen or a high-res screen. For that configuration you pay ~1000-1400$ normally to be honest.

If you do a diy edition you will have to pay for the same ~ 2100$, which is also a lot. For that price i can get a 2-in-1 with pen support, 260ppi display, same specs and i will pay 300$ less. And if you are able to build a framework diy, you will also find other laptops, which are not glued and can be replaced in battery.

So it really needs a lot of “justifying” i think. Because you get less for more money and the upgradeable parts are so expensiv, you will not be able to compensate the initial high price: If you have your 16" framework for 5 years and then you think about to upgrade your CPU for (probably) ~700$ + your GPU for ~500$ you will pay 1200$ for that. But you are still staying on your old display, with your old battery, with maybe a overused keyboard/touchpad and so on. So then you have paid 2100$ + 1200$, which would be 3300$. So 2 times 1650$, which is more than paying 2 times a laptop with same specs.

Sure, it would be more sustainable to further use the case of the laptop and other parts, but if you really want to upgrade it, you pay as much as a new laptop and you have only some parts upgraded…with the same old display.

Also to be mentioned: frameworks is starting to offer specific parts only as upgrades and not in the diy edition anymore. So if you are searching for some specific specs, you may lead to be forced to buy like 2 batteries to get the big one (for example), if you really want framework.

So if framework offers new displays in future, who knows if you will be able to configure the diy with it? Probably not, because already now you can’t configure the newer 13th gen 13" framework laptops with the glossy screen. There is no option for it. You would have to pay it extra and throw the other away :smiley: Same for the bigger battery. You can’t have the bigger battery with the smaller CPU. You have to buy it extra and throw away the small one :smiley:

So that does not make me feel i will be able to configure my diy how i want in future, when more parts are available, if they already now are not able to do it with less different parts.

I mean it is nice to have the possibility to upgrade your graphics card, but all the mentioned things makes it hard for me to “justify” the price of the laptop and its parts. So I would really not say that a framework laptop will be worth it from a financial point of view. You have to do it because you want to support this philosophy. Otherwise (if you treat your hardware well and are not very unlucky) you will lie to yourself or wont be happy or you are one of these people, who want to upgrade your GPU every generation (then it could be cheaper as buying a new laptop).

Actually it should be possible to upgrade your CPU + GPU without paying more than a new laptop with same specs.

I’m sorry if Framework Laptop 16 isn’t right for you. Let’s all hope that Framework reaches a scale where they can find a way to bring down the price in the future to open the door to repairable laptops for even more people.

Since this thread is getting off-topic and repeating the same points with no additional substance, I’ll be closing it shortly. Thank you.

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