Hello @Matt_Hartley !
I’m glad you came here to this thread to speak for Framework and take up our concerns. Thank you very much for that!
It would also be important for me to hear a bit more concrete timeframe for further development and -if it can’t be met- to get renewed feedback on how the plan is changing and moving forward.
The twice hinted at internal test versions that then no one ever spoke of again were the most frustrating experience for me that really made me doubt your commitment to support because of the buggy beta version that has been unchanged for 8 months.
Beyond that, and more important I’m also interested in patching the security holes, the support for your larger battery and I would like to know what else will be addressed with a new version.
The Thunderbolt certification isn’t that important to me personally, but in that regard I’m probably only one of a few…
Finally, it would be important to know for how long you will support each board generation (EOL). With either full or security-only updates.
Again, thanks for caring here now and taking the questions and concerns of the community. The devices you offer are good, and I really like your sustainable approach, but in terms of bios support and communication, there is still a lot of room for improvement.
This was promised in Nov. 2022 to be in the 3.06 bios update were dose it stand at this point.
“We’re currently preparing our 12th Gen 3.06 firmware update for release that contains the updates for Thunderbolt 4, a range of security fixes, and improvements in both suspend and active battery life. We’ll share more on that last part in an upcoming blog post. We’ll provide instructions on how to update firmware for both Windows and Linux. For the Chromebook Edition , firmware updates happen automatically through ChromeOS system updates. For 11th Gen systems, we also have a firmware update in progress to bring in the security updates and power consumption improvements, but not retroactively certify Thunderbolt (there are some test cases we don’t believe we can resolve on that generation, unfortunately).”
@Paul_Langford
Yes, that is what should be included as of November 2022. But nine months have passed since then, and new problems may have occurred, and most importantly, the new, larger batteries have been released. Will they be addressed here or in a following release?
NRP posted an update for 11th gen BIOS and mentioned that the entire BIOS release process is being overhauled, I imagine it will affect 12th gen as well when that process gets put into place.
Copying in the response from the 11th Gen thread below. The detail on the 12th Gen firmware update is similar. The actual firmware itself is complete, but preparing the updaters for both Windows and Linux has been slow and challenging. This is in part because of the number of individual firmwares across the system that correspond to each other that are being updated together, which is more difficult than an Embedded Controller-only or UEFI-only update.
Just a note that we are in release preparation for the next BIOS release at the moment for 11th Gen. We do have the Windows version of the next Beta release currently, but we’ve been delayed on preparing the Linux version of it. Our goal is to always be able to release Windows and Linux versions simultaneously.
Starting with this release and going forward, we are revamping our BIOS release process overall. Our mission is focused on product longevity, and ongoing software support is a key part of that.
We’ll be sharing more detail on this, but some of the changes will include:
When we launch a Beta, we’ll be sharing the target schedule for promotion from Beta to final release. Our default schedule will be two weeks. If we see feedback from the community around new regressions or other issues with the release, we’ll determine whether we need additional time in Beta or a follow on release before final. In each case, we’ll make sure to communicate any schedule changes.
We’re working with our upstream suppliers on getting dedicated staffing into place for sustaining software development. This means we’ll be able to resolve some of the delays we’ve had thus far in timely BIOS releases. Note that with this, we’ll have dedicated support in place within Framework, with the upstream supplier to us (Compal), and the upstream supplier to them (Insyde). However, there will still be suppliers further upstream of that (e.g. Intel or other silicon vendors) that we have less visibility or control over.
@nrp First of all, I (and probably a lot of others in this thread) appreciate the response.
I like the two weeks planned schedule, even though I still have some doubts coming from this first upgrade. But if 3.07 is in the pipeline, I guess there will be a chance to regain some trust.
On the goal of shipping a Windows & Linux release at the same time, personally I would also be fine releasing the upgrade before it can be installed in a convenient way. If I know I can trust the stability of the software, I am fine with taking the hard route (even if it would mean installing Windows). Especially as this is not a chore I will have to do often.
So maybe remove the beta label and state the current work on the installation procedure ? If you are worried about the risk of having a bad USB disks being used for installation, also communicate that. It would still make it easier to judge for users whether they want to upgrade
@p_e Thanks for the feedback. And we do appreciate everyone’s perspective. We have an already in motion plan of action, so we’ll be going forward with it.
I use my framework 13 with a AORUS RTX 3080 GAMING BOX. According to egpu.io, the eGPU has two JHL6340 Thunderbolt Controllers. The primary controller is for hosting the eGPU, and the secondary controller is for hosting the expansion ports.
With bios 3.06 on my laptop (i7-1280p), the ethernet port on the eGPU doesn’t work, and the USB ports on the eGPU have some serious lagging issues with a mouse.
I then tested the eGPU on my friend’s framework laptop (i5-1240p) with the original bios. Everything is fine on her laptop. I suspect there are some compatibility issues for bios 3.06 that cause the secondary controller to be unstable.
Lets do some guessing…
3.19 beta for 11th gen + 15 DAYS = 15th september 11th gen release
If no problem with the beta it supposed to go to 12th gen…
So maybe we get it in October on 12th gen
The release of BIOS updates requires collaboration with our outside development partner, and those resources are shared across a number of projects. I can tell you that both 11th and 12th Gen Intel Core BIOS updates are a priority, and as @Matt_Hartley stated, we’ve exited Beta for 11th Gen Intel Core for 3.19, and 12th Gen Intel Core is in the mix. This is all extremely challenging given our small team and competing priorities. While we do admit and own that these delayed releases have been a poor experience, we’ve been transparent and are sharing status the moment we know where it’s at. Let’s try to be a little more constructive in how we communicate frustration please. We do read these, as do our engineers that are putting in tremendous effort across a number of products, and time zones.
@TheTwistgibber
I think one of the key issues that has contributed to some people’s frustration regarding bios updates has been the radio silence at times. I do definitely understand Framework is a small company with about 40 employees and that resources are shared across numerous different things as of late (e.g. AMD Framework 13 and Framework 16). The easiest compare/contrast is the delay surrounding the AMD Framework 13.
While I was disappointed that it wouldn’t be ready before school started, the 3/4 emails that I’ve since August have been really helpful in allowing me to understand what were some issues and the plan going forward. And straight from the email “delayed hardware is eventually good, but rushed hardware is forever bad”. I think this really applies to this situation. No one wants a buggy, rushed bios update and I’m all for Framework’s team taking their time to work out any issues. I think what’s important is some type of regular communication so that people understand that their issues are being heard and that there’s a plan to address them. I’m not asking for something like those emails to be replicate but it would be nice if the team could put out a short post every month or quarter outline some issues with bioses and things in the work. (This was mentioned back in May by Ghostlegion).
The last post specifically about the 12th gen bios update was from June mentioning that release validation was ongoing and it’s been silence until a couple weeks when the new changes regarding staffing and the plan on bios updates. Some people have reported issues with the 3.06 beta back in January/February and it’s been 8-9 months for them with no fix yet. I’ve had no issues with the update so I don’t mind wait but for those that having, constantly waiting while seeing Framework announce new products must have made them feel like they were being abandoned.
Overall, I’m cautiously optimistic that things will get better but I genuinely do hope that communication does improve going forward.
@Matt_Hartley I have been running bios 3.06 since beta launch and was having to reset/plug-in the HDMI module everytime I needed to use it, however after getting the version three of the module I am no longer seeing the issue. Not sure if you guys have seen something similar but might be worth having more validation than just me.
