I have a Framework from the Batch 5 shipment and it’s been great while working on a desk.
This weekend I had to use it on my lap and it is so frustrating having the screen fall back to the 180 degrees position every time you touch a key.
I don’t notice a wobbling while typing. It just falls unless you keep your legs completely flat.
I feel like this “open with one-hand” marketing speak is trying to turn a defect into a feature. A better hinge or another solution can not come fast enough.
I couldn’t care less about “one handed opening”. I just want a hinge as sturdy and stable as the one on my many Thinkpads
[quote=“Ceaser_Larry, post:95, topic:3530”]
I feel like this “open with one-hand” marketing speak is trying to turn a defect into a feature. [/quote]
agreed. I have never opened a laptop with one hand or ever needed to.
I feel like the people that care about one handed opening are the same people that don’t care about repairing their own electronics. Just imo.
A light laptop and one handed opening are two requirements, that doesn’t match.
Did you get an answer to this? Is 3.8kg more than the OOTB hinges (stiffer), or are they the same thing?
(gets curious and tests with his own thinkpad T14)
Ah. Well, the Thinkpad strikes a extremely good balance between able to prop the display up (at all angles) and resisting minor vibrations/shocks /movements in most upright positions.
I am unsurprised to see laptops with heavier screens (framework) fail to do so. Especially with un-adjustable hinges as the friction mechanism means there is very little room for wear and tear before it completely loosens up.
For example, this Dell hinge
The nut presses two spring plates (black) to push against base for friction. A lot of material can wear away before the springs lost the ability to press them together tightly (and hold up the display). This (wide pressing distance&range) also allows them to be really adjustable.
It seems like there is plenty of room to fit a adjustable hinge in. Why they did not do, I do not know.
Bottom of the barrel crap…that no other decent manufacturer wants. …so that’s what ended up being available at the time… That, or Framework consciously knowing exactly what they were choosing / designing / purchasing…and still went with it. (The alternative is Framework not knowing what the implication of the parts they were choosing…)
look no further than the Macbook Pro.
I’m curious if they went for this design cause it seemed to work for Apple.
I’m not convinced that’s a fair assessment. Building a new laptop from scratch–especially something like a fully repairable laptop isn’t a trivial project. I think Framework’s done a pretty decent job of it for a first generation product, and certainly appear to have been conscientious with regards to most of their design decisions.
I’ve seen both better and worse from more established companies.
Are you hinting they don’t have the experience, or inexperience, or lack of sufficient experience? “generation” of a product is irrelevant if someone / anyone knows what they’re doing. [Good] Prototype testing would have revealed the issues.
Yes…so that brings us to the first likely reason…the hinges were available.
I see that as a very cynical and unforgiving take. Are some mistakes make by corporations due to incompetence or taking the easy path? Assuredly. Are all? Unlikely. I choose to give the Framework team the benefit of the doubt, and to understand that this is a first generation product. Your standards are different. You’re entitled to your opinion, and there is nothing wrong with holding a high bar. However, my take on things is that your approach to doing so comes across as a bit caustic. Have a good evening.
I had tiger parents. Forgiving is an opportunity for compromise, for others to be better than you.
perhaps. consider Framework is made of ex-apple engineers.
But again. it’s Apple. If you look, Apple have two opposing clamps, compared to Framework’s single-piece roll-clamp, thus allowing for more tension. And also the fact that Macbook display panels are extremely lightweight. A un-fused panel (like the framework), especially un-glued, where the display is standalone, generally means a lot of extra weight.
I still think it’s a engineering oversight, but not a critical one, as the rest of the laptop end up being at least half decent (and are in fact very good. The thermal solution, for example, is excellent.)
Which isn’t a problem (and usually is the persistent problems) for 1st-gen designs (of anything). As long as there will be improvements down the line.
Usually better. All the Dell machines I have seen, Hp, even Lenovo where a brand new laptop (one week) will immediately throw bluescreen (snaps finger) just like that and upset my USB-C charger (you can hear the massive coil whine) have adjustable hinges. I have a GPD Win Max Gen 1 that don’t, which I believe is a design compromise (for such a small machine), but is irrelevant for such a small display anyway. And, in fairness, I trust more in Framework than GPD, having taken apart the Win Max and see the … cheap-ish construction they used.
If I own a framework with a hinge that … well, basically provide no friction. Will I be frustrated? Yes. Will it cause me to lose trust in the company? A little bit, yes. I would be hoping that they will fix this issue.
I was going to say that since Framework is lagging behind releasing Intel 12th gen that their company is having a little bit of problem, but I also think they are going to make more cool things.
If they do think this is a problem, they very likely have already came up with a solution. Or at least they will be attempting to solve this problem.
If the announce “oh our first 10 batches have a issue with the hinge”, then, well, public image is going to decrease, even if they offer to issue out the replacement for, say, free. If they don’t, the issue might just blow (hopefully not).
The best way, I think, is to implement this new hinge in the new (if any) Framework laptop. Or at least make a huge hassle about it in their new 12th gen (or something) machine, and offring this as “upgrade” to the old laptop, with loose-hinge-unit owners getting free replacements. But right now they are being very quiet, so I say we wait.
Meanwhile if you want, you can experiment with adding superglue to the moving parts to create a tighter fit for more friction. or bend the two pieces closer (hydraulic press) or … i don’t know. Heat them up and generate oxidation layers. Jamming in metal sheets might work as well. At least remove the hinge from the machine first, so if you do cook it up at least the rest of it is fine.
My mom is always quite harsh, my father slightly less so. I can safely say that being harsh isn’t necessarily good. Because what that has happened has happened. It’s fixed. Punishment create problems, not answers, even though it’s a good way to learn. I am glad that we are more frequently agreeing on things. My performance can certainly be better, but I doubt having even more harsh parents will improve the situation. Because you will be always tempted to do “cool” and “fun” things sneakily, even more so when there there is suprevision. When you are left with choices, sure, you might be unproductive for some time, but eventually you will … have a urge to demonstrate your usefulness.
I admire your optimism.
The Space Telescope, probably the most designed, engineered, and tested product in the solar system. Has bugs.
Iphone, android, Tesla. Definitely design bugs. And on multi-generational products.
Laptops? Every one of them has some serious design issue. You choose the one that you can live with.
The only tech I have that’s truly that well-designed and robust is my HP-15C calculator, and that’s 35 years old.
It doesn’t take much to realize that Apple has their issues as well. Along with an incredible amount of money and resources.
I think I posted elsewhere: I use my laptops hard (and with Linux). Over the years, my Asus Zenbooks had power supply issues. My Dell XPS13s and 15s had display issues (the hinges would actually break after a year or so). I got Lenovo support involved with my X1 Carbon the other day because it refused to charge.
Framework sent me a new hinge, which took 15 minutes to install and solved the problem. They’re making obvious small improvements in each iteration–a far more robust long-term strategy than introducing new models. You can’t make everybody happy, but I pretty much am.
Compromises everywhere. Again, they (referring to your design cases) all either know, or they don’t know, the exact implications. Bugs - they don’t/didn’t know the exact implications, or decided they can live with them.
Going back to the hinges, so are you saying they knew the issue with the hinges during prototyping and still went with it? Or are you saying, they didn’t see the issue at all before production? Or are you saying something else?
In terms of the ‘knowledge’ of the issue at any point in time, it’s simple, yes / no.
There are always compromises. We (hopefully) try to make them wisely.
They were pretty clear about it. They chose one-handed open over display solidity, a choice with which I happen to disagree. But it was their compromise, based on the knowledge and expectations they had at the time, amongst the huge number of other choices and compromises that must be made when developing an innovative new product, and with limited staff and resources.
They made their choices, and now they’re working to make improvements based on new knowledge and a much larger selection of use cases.
In my experience, things are rarely as simple as “yes/no.”
If they knew of the issue, that is. It’s not clear if that was known. (Because compromises involve evaluation / weighing. If it’s unknown, then it’s lack of knowledge / experience, or negligence.)
One-handed opening is the feature (the intentional outcome), it’s not the issue (side-effect) being discussed. The implementation of the feature is what’s introduced the issue. The two are different items.
Rarely, but when it comes to the question i posted, it was a yes/no point in time knowledge question. Don’t span / scope the question more than what I posted. That is, you can have your own question, scope it how you want it.
Your last couple of replies started derailing (by scoping in wider aspects of design). Sure, they’re relatable, but beyond the scope here. i.e. It’s not a case of you got caught speeding and then saying…“But they’re speeding too” to the officer.
It’s not clear what the direction of the improvements are. What’s the notification / roll out plan? To existing customers or only applies to new purchases…? What are those new improvements, and to what extent do they improve the experience or impact the experience (positively or negatively)?
There this optimism from the community that things will improve…but there’s a lack of communication of commitment, timeline, applicability / eligibility…etc. e.g. We see there’s a hinge kit with a “3.8kg” designation…what does that even mean?
[In the spirit of derailing]
It’s like “Let’s don’t say a thing…if customers ask, then that’s one thing. But if they’re not asking, don’t say anything.”. Not saying that’s what it is, but it’s what I perceived “like”.
If anyone noticed, the level / degree of transparency has changed since Series A. Framework now answers to investors, more so than the customers (understandably given where the money is coming from). We used to get notices / transparency on even having TIM application issue, or double-sided tape). Framework hasn’t responded to the energy usage of the expansion cards, particular during system suspend/sleep, for months now. And what’s happening to the TB4 certification process?
