Oh, if you are ok with sanding and painting that changes a lot.
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Yes, definitely. I even found a paint as close to the rubbery one on Thinkpad as possible. I am aiming for that rather than polished shiny plastic.
Just adding a dbrand skin to the regular one is off the table (that swarm one looks pretty sweet)?
I definitely want to print a custom case but not for the surface finish XD
It’s all the factors combined that make it Thinkpad-like in the end. I intend to add a magnesium reinforcement sheet too. The materials, the processing, the color, the thickness, the reinforcement and the paint.
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Adding thickness to the keyboard/input board will require a hinge redesign
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I like where this is going, but there’s one thing you should keep in mind.
The ThinkPad Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint (0B47190) has a major issue with the way the middle mouse scrolling works. Unlike the TrackPoints in ThinkPad laptops, when you hold down the middle mouse button on the Compact USB Keyboard, the keyboard firmware sends TrackPoint movements as coarse scroll events instead of fine mouse movements. Scrolling on the Compact USB Keyboard is much less precise than scrolling on an actual ThinkPad laptop TrackPoint.
To make the Compact USB Keyboard scroll like a ThinkPad laptop TrackPoint, you’ll need to patch the keyboard firmware.
The Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard II may have fixed this problem, but it uses Bluetooth or a USB dongle instead of a wired USB connection, which makes it unsuitable for this project.
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Blockquote Frankie_Wild
[20d]
Unfortunately the difference in size and form is too great to reuse the original chassis. For example I don’t plan on having a touchpad at all. And if you are going to make a new case why not make it of better materials. That’s just my way of thinking. I love the black plastic aesthetics and the rubbery feel.
I am a huge fan of the TrackPoint, so much so I bought another Lenovo after having issues with a previous one (only to have tons of issues with the new one) and I bought another USB TrackPoint keyboard after the crappy micro-USB port on my first one failed, despite them refusing to update them to USB-C. And I refuse to buy any other laptop, as a TrackPoint is one of my requirements, which makes it tough, since I’m basically done with Lenovo and their lousy computers at this point. So Framework provided a glimmer of hope, which has unfortunately yet to come to fruition, so I’m definitely interested in this project. All that said, while TrackPoints are, IMO, far superior to trackpads, there have been many times over the past several months, when I’ve been using the USB TrackPoint keyboard (no touchpad) with my desktop, that I’ve found myself wishing it had a touchpad, because sometimes, when just doing casual stuff, it’s so much easier to just quickly move your finger across it and tap vs having to position your hand to use the TrackPoint (sometimes a bit difficult in the dark) and using it to move the mouse then clicking the button. It doesn’t seem like much, but there are definitely scenarios where having just a TrackPoint and not having a trackpad is an inconvenience and less efficient.
[Adrian_Joachim]
[20d]
Doubt you’ll find anything even remotely as solid as a sub xx30 thinkpad
I’ve never understood all the claims of ThinkPad ruggedness. I had an X220, and the bezel came apart (and I think maybe broke a bit) from a fall of ~2 feet onto carpet. Also, the charging port failed, forcing me to have to keep the slice battery permanently attached so I could use its charge port, and I think one of the USB ports may have failed, too, though I don’t remember. That thing was anything but rugged and had poor build quality. The only good thing about Lenovos is, and always has been, their keyboards and TrackPoints, both of which have been steadily getting worse. That’s why something like this is so desperately needed.
[Frankie_Wild]
3
[20d]
No worries guys. It wasn’t about a word used but rather the general idea that we are not aiming for Thinkpad quality and not taking it seriously.
On a separate note I think the keyboard mod will not be allowed on the marketplace so everyone has to do it at his own will.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing (see above).
Why wouldn’t it be allowed on the marketplace? FW’s official answer was they’re not going to do it but somebody else can and might. So if they’re not going to allow it, that seems pretty disingenuous, though that wouldn’t really surprise me as I’ve not been impressed by their support.
[casual]
[11d]
I like where this is going, but there’s one thing you should keep in mind.
The ThinkPad Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint (0B47190) has a major issue with the way the middle mouse scrolling works. Unlike the TrackPoints in ThinkPad laptops, when you hold down the middle mouse button on the Compact USB Keyboard, the keyboard firmware sends TrackPoint movements as coarse scroll events instead of fine mouse movements. Scrolling on the Compact USB Keyboard is much less precise than scrolling on an actual ThinkPad laptop TrackPoint.
I used the TrackPoint on my T14s for months, then the one on my USB keyboard for months, and for the past couple weeks I have been going back and forth, and I haven’t really noticed much difference aside from the one on the external keyboard seeming to have more drift issues. If anything, I’d say scrolling is better on the external keyboard, as I seem to have more issues with it switching to the quick scroll when using the laptop TrackPoint, but I can’t say if that’s really the case or just seems that way.
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Unfortunately there is no space for the original FW touchpad due to the trackpad keys below the keyboard.
No brand will officially allow mixing of components from other brands let alone selling them on their marketplace. What I can do is design the case so that it can accommodate the 3rd party keyboard but everybody has to buy the keyboard separately and make the mod themselves. The project is a DIY body kit translating to panels and nothing more.
Perhaps you could include the option of having it off to one side. I think many would still want a touchpad available, even if it can’t be centered.
Maybe another project will focus on that. This is more of a return to pre-touchpad classic Thinkpads such as X60/X61.
Or just have a smaller touchpad, just big enough for scrolling, small movements, and tapping. Though even small ThinkPads manage to have space for one, so I would think one could be fit into a FW.
As for the marketplace, if they’re not going to do it themselves, it seems in their best interest to allow it in the marketplace. Heck, even calling it a ‘marketplace’ suggests that’s what it’s for, as the term itself means a place for selling things from various vendors. I’m fairly handy, but depending on what exactly the mod would entail I’m not sure if I would be up for it. Regardless, considering the number of people that are holding off on buying a FW and would buy one if they could get one with a TrackPoint, they should be making it easy for a third-party to provide the mod and easy for users to implement it, as that would get them more sales.
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Not really because there is a conflict of interest here. This is a Framework marketplace not a general one. As such their best interest is in creating a 3rd party ecosystem for Framework. When I create a DIY body kit it will be branded as Framework in order to be sold on the marketplace.
You can see for reference the mainboard case created by Cooler Master:
That’s pretty cool, a see-through laptop case.
I guess I’m not really understanding how their marketplace works. You say their best interest is in creating a third-party ecosystem (also what I was saying), which to me seems exactly what your mod, or anyone else’s, would be a part of. And I would think you couldn’t brand it Framework, as it’s not theirs and generally companies don’t want others using their brand.
Also, even if you couldn’t market it in their marketplace, you should be able to elsewhere.
Part of comes down to laws and regulations. In a lot of markets while you can safely sell a kit of pieces to modify someone elses hardware, if you sell a kit that also contains that hatdware you can run into trouble with big companies if you haven’t sought the rights to market and resell their hardware.
And selling modded hardware is another iffy area because the creator of the original hardware often has legal backing to stop you “Because your modded hardware may not be safe, and poses a brand issue for them”
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By branding it ought to have the Framework logo to be sold on the FW marketplace as is the case with the Cooler Master mainboard case. The name contains the manufacturer but it’s made for Framework only. Otherwise it wouldn’t be an ecosystem at all.
Mods are fine as long as they are made for Framework but selling components from other manufacturers in the FW marketplace is not acceptable both for FW and the manufacturer of the component. Thus answering the question why the keyboard can not be included in the kit. It’s basically just reselling since you haven’t created it in the first place.
Ok, that makes more sense, though it is unfortunate as it makes it harder to come up with a good solution to this need. I check probably 1-2 times a year to see if there are any new keyboards or laptops with TrackPoints and am continually disappointed.
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If the project succeeds it will be a plug and play mod as long as you get the same keyboard since it’s based on USB connectivity. Producers of internal keyboards intentionally create different ribbon cables for each model and generation to make it incompatible with other brands and maintain their competitive advantage.
Kinda doubt it’s for that. Probably more them being lazy with the main-board layout and ex firmware.
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If it wasn’t for that they wouldn’t use proprietary cables but use the USB standard or any other universal one to connect everything internally.
Because the keyboard in a laptop is normally handled by the ec, as raw matrix. It’s not a proprietary protocol it’s just a matrix, just like there is behind the usb controller of a usb keyboard. And since every laptop manufacturer wants to do weird stuff to the keyboard they tend to use different matrices. Plus it probably saves a little power to have the ex which has to run anyway vs a separate controller for the keyboard. Then there is to bom reduction, for one the kayboard can stay really, really dumb (like straight up no logic dumb unless you count diodes as logic) and you only need traces to the ec.
For the mod though usb is the way to go, at least initially. Later you could probably mod the ex firmware to read the matrix of whatever keyboard you choose and actuate all the leds in it but a separate usb keyboard controller is a lot easier for now.
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