Converting Framework 13 to a FrankenPad

Creators & Developers
81

Because the keyboard in a laptop is normally handled by the ec, as raw matrix. It’s not a proprietary protocol it’s just a matrix, just like there is behind the usb controller of a usb keyboard. And since every laptop manufacturer wants to do weird stuff to the keyboard they tend to use different matrices. Plus it probably saves a little power to have the ex which has to run anyway vs a separate controller for the keyboard. Then there is to bom reduction, for one the kayboard can stay really, really dumb (like straight up no logic dumb unless you count diodes as logic) and you only need traces to the ec.

For the mod though usb is the way to go, at least initially. Later you could probably mod the ex firmware to read the matrix of whatever keyboard you choose and actuate all the leds in it but a separate usb keyboard controller is a lot easier for now.

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82

They are not proprietary. They use standard off-the-self connectors. The pinouts change because they just use whatever routes best for the matrix in their particular keyboard. You’re more limited on how you route traces because you have to weave between keys and keyboards are so very thin that you aren’t using traditional multi-layer pcbs. And they just have no reason to keep it consistent over time. Proprietary would be things such as Apple ports.

A lot of laptop keyboards seem to use 0.5mm pitch ffc cables and connectors. Sometimes notched for more secure retention. If it’s notched then you have the trouble of figuring out which connector matches but for one-off DIY projects you can just trim the notches off and fit it into a more common non-notched connector. Quite a few Thinkpads actually have schematics available if you search. Without a pinout you can still buzz out a matrix with some work.

83

I was following this thread and suddenly wondered, could we approach the chinese vendor who makes the keyboard to maybe get one with just the keyboard out for us (without trackpoint and touchpad), which we then fit into the adapter that Frankie_Wild is making?

84

To clear the misunderstanding. I am not making any adapter. Just a DIY body kit because I prefer gfrp/cfrp to aluminum. It will contain bottom cover panel, input cover panel and display cover panel. The input cover panel will be specifically designed to fit a Thinkpad KU-1255 keyboard.

Later on we can make more custom input covers to fit other keyboards but buying and modding the keyboards themselves is up to the user and not part of the kit.

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85

Making every model with a different matrix is the same as proprietary for me since you cannot reuse the same component throughout generations and other models. Even the chassis is slightly different each generation so it’s not backward compatible. I joined the FW community precisely because it aims for backward compatibility and retains the same case over generations.

86

I actually like the feel of gfrp/cfrp after using my current X280 Thinkpad. But wouldn’t the bottom cover be magnesium alloy (I know the X1 and X280 uses that as the bottom cover panel). Though, we could potentially find a way to coat the aluminium bottom with black coating/paint or something and recycle the bottom.

Ah, okay then. I was thinking to find a way to swap the input panel Was thinking of doing a crowdfunding for the MOQ but then again, that applies to your chassis design too.

87

I prefer the soft rubbery feel of plastic to cold metal. I will use magnesium alloy sheets only between the bottom cover and input cover as well as behind the display cover to increase the rigidity and robustness of the chassis. A sandwich-like construction similar to the Thinkpad roll-cage.

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88

I have chosen the KU-1255 precisely because it’s sold with the original controller so that I can focus on the chassis rather than the electronics.

For other keyboards users can mod them and reuse the chassis as long as the dimensions match. I imagine next iterations being polls and whichever keyboard wins it gets the next input cover panel designed.

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89

I was thinking of thermal pad mods for heat disspation so alu/mag alloys would be nice, then I realised the Framework CPU is below the keyboard. I guess it doesn’t matter.

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90

Yes, I am adding it for rigidity only. To strengthen torsion resistance since some Thinkpads without roll-cage developed cracks in the plastic when held by the corners.

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91

Still a proprietary case, just one that gets used over multiple generations.

The connector/protocol isn’t proprietary, the matrix however usually is (the one in the KU-1255 is too).

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92

Framework are open sourcing everything so definitely not a proprietary one. See tablet and AIO projects that already reused that case and modified it.

Whatever it is it should have been possible to use any keyboard with any mainboard as a simple DIY plug and play which is not the case. Luckily external keyboards are universal thanks to USB.

How do I see the future?

A mix and match of any component from any brand for non-commercial personal use. And I beleive this is what Framework is already doing with their mindset and line up.

93

They released the cad of the bottom case without me noticing?

Pretty sure I explained that part before but for modularity, usb is definitely a good option, there aren’t that many drawbacks. Hell they are doing it on the 16 for the same reason.

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94

Not yet but they released one for the mainboard case which is a step in that direction.

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95

I haven’t tested thoroughly on other operating systems, but on Linux with Wayland, the difference is night and day. The ThinkPad Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint (with the unmodified stock firmware) has choppy scrolling that resembles scrolling with a cheap mouse wheel, while a TrackPoint on an actual ThinkPad laptop scrolls smoothly with pixel-by-pixel precision.

The more recent Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard II (which is a wireless keyboard that uses either Bluetooth or a USB dongle) shouldn’t have this issue, so are you sure you are using the older model?

96

This doesn’t make sense in practice - and I’m speaking as someone who’s done a fuckton of research into laptop keyboards, including an automated tool for reverse-engineering and reusing them. Different laptops have different mainboard placement => keyboard FPC connector placement => different matrix layout. Check this RE for an example on how laptop keeb layers look inside, for instance - moving the connector means hella changing the matrix. Overall, we just need to get better at reusing them - the tech is there, it’s that ppl are more-or-less lazy about it, including me; I have a ton of laptop keeb reuse material that I’m just, sitting on :sweat_smile: USB fundamentally consumes more power, which is bad in laptops.

4 Likes
97

While still in the prototyping phase the vision for a V2 is already underway. If the body kit for the Thinkpad keyboard takes off and sells well the next mod will be a body kit that can accommodate the MNT reform keyboard 3.0 for a completely mechanical setup with 3 mm key travel: MNT Reform USB Standalone Keyboard - MNT Research Shop and the original FW 13 touchpad.

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98

Update, update :slight_smile:

With the economy getting sore and leaving my job I am currently unable to fund the initial R&D for the first prototype but willing to go all in this project.

To put things in perspective I am thinking of starting a Crowd Supply campaign and try and fund it all that way.

A little bit about my background:

  • Previously 10 years in IT
  • 4 months as a laptop technician(my last job)
  • 10+ years a Thinkpad user

The plan

I have a partnering 3d printing company which is reliable and we cooperate on prototyping for a few months now.

The body kit will consist of:

  • Bottom cover(ABS ESD plastic)
  • Input cover(ABS ESD plastic)
  • Support plate between the two(probably isolated metal alloy)
  • Display cover(ABS ESD plastic)

You will be able to reuse everything else including hinges, magnets and display bezel. It’s a user-replaceable DIY body kit.

Important: V1 is based entirely on accommodating a Thinkpad Wired USB Keyboard and the input cover is without any touchpad since there is no space for the original one.

Optionally you can choose V2 with the MNT reform keyboard and reuse your existing Framework 13 touchpad. That’s subject to reality check since I don’t have one yet.

You might be able to fit any other USB wired keyboard with the same dimensions.
The keyboard is not part of the body kit and you have to obtain it yourself.

The prospective price comes up at: 499$ per body kit

This should cover all of the R&D and my personal survival throughout that period.

All models will be released as open-source once an initial batch of 100 units is sold so that people can 3d print the whole body kit themselves.

All calculations are preliminary, used for testing interest only and subject to change until the application to Crowd Supply is submitted.

Shipping can take place by the end of the year. Most likely starting with Europe since I have a registered company in EU.

  • I will pre-order V1 based on the Thinkpad Wired USB keyboard without touchpad
  • I will pre-order V2 based on the MTN Reform keyboard and reuse my touchpad

0 voters

P.S If Framework decides to donate a Framework 13 laptop for this project that will make things half way easier.

Current status: prototyping of bottom cover.

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99

CrowdSupply turns down 90-95% of all applications so don’t get your hopes up. I got this data point after applying, they also need to see demand and publishing build logs on somewhere like Hackaday.

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100

Since there was not a single vote on the poll yet I will move on with the project if it gathers some interest and when the AMD option becomes generally available.