@Johannes_T Thank you for the information! Yeah, it did help a lot.
I’ll try to get a cooling pad regardless since I don’t like my devices getting hot that much, but I appreciate you explaining me a bit more on how that works.
And it makes sense that in those benchmarks it’ll get hot. The Gizmodo review seemed to be the most critical review so far (but also the one that makes me the more concerned and hopeful the Framework team sees to see if there are fixes via software/firmware)
Hopefully the FF team sees this post and do some extra explaining because it is making me feel slightly worries (but to be fair, the one thing that truly is making me consider cancelling the preorder is the battery life, many reviews are reporting poor/bellow average battery life)
@2disbetter That would be cool indeed! I’d even love to see an optional case that has more fans and heatsinks. Even if it makes the bottom a bit chunky, It’d be more worth it at the end.
@Ryan_Martens Yes, that explains it pretty well I also wanted to ask here mainly to see if it also has to do with the processor itself, because based on other review for laptops with similar processors it also runs hot (specifically in the case itself)
Personally from what I’ve seen in adequately-cooled Tiger Lake ultrabooks (which Framework appears to be), sustaining 15W puts the CPU Package temperature at 60-65C, while sustaining ~30W should be possible at 85-90C, a temp I consider to be safe to sustain for prolonged workloads.
@Kieran_Levinposted a screenshot of FurMark (a GPU-heavy load) running for 5 minutes on the 1165G7 and the temperatures looked remarkably low (28W@73C). So I’m curious about this discrepancy vs. the third-party reviews.
Intel has disabled the ability to undervolt 11th gen CPUs (at the hardware level, so no easy workarounds). That said, you should be able to use something like ThrottleStop (on Windows) to modify PL1 and PL2 values if you’re not happy with the values Framework chose. Also, since Framework claims the EC firmware is open-source, it theoretically should be possible to do this without any third-party programs.
We’re digging into the Gizmodo unit as soon as we get it back to determine what is happening there. In general, we see the laptop sustain 28W indefinitely at CPU temperatures in the high 70s to low 80s under normal ambient temperatures, as indicated in the earlier screenshot from Kieran.
@feesh we have configured the dynamic tuning framework so that when the power slider is adjusted in windows, the TDP will change. I need to double confirm the exact values but I think the following should be close. We will publish a knowledge base article soon with more details.
Battery Saver: PL1 10-12W (I need to double check)
Best Battery: PL1 15W
Balanced: PL1 28W (with thermal throttling control to limit max temps)
Best performance: PL1 28W with higher thermal limits.
@feesh Oh wow, I did not knew that was done… I appreciate you explaining me and taking your time as well
@nrp@Kieran_Levin
Thanks for the honestly and reading my concern… I’d hope is just unit errors, but hopefully if it’s something, then it could be something solve.
Would this be something to be concerned about with the i5, and VPro models? or were temps the ame as the ones you guys tested?
I am absolutely excited for the framework laptop and vision and was just about to place my purchase, but when I read 3+ tech spec reviews commenting on the hot temperatures, I belayed that order.
I’ll reconsider placing an order and recommending this to others when that is addressed publicly (which it may already have been, and I haven’t seen it yet)
@Robert_Pearce I feel ya… I was close to cancelling mine too, I am just glad that the team themselves answers questions here… does make me feel like they care. Hopefully they can address this and see what happened
I did cancel mine… And keep coming back to see whether any solutions have been found. My current laptop’s heat issues is one of the main reasons I want to change though, so I guess it is just wishful thinking. Maybe v2?
For what it’s worth, I have not been able to get my temps anywhere near what the review unit did until I sat in bed with the laptop sitting on top of my comforter and being choked for air. I managed to get it around 90c at the cpu and it was warm on the bottom for sure, but as soon as I lifted it off the comforter it cooled right down and could be on my lap. I’d be happy to grab an IR thermometer and give you some real world usage temps if you want. Just let me know what you want to see.
To add a data point: temperatures on my 1135g7 model are very good. During cinebench r23, temperatures peak at 85c and average in mid 70s. During normal use, the temperature is usually in the 40s.
I’ve had my i7 1165G7 based Framework system for about 4days. I’m happy with the system, but from the first power-on & before any application installations, it has run hot with the fans audible even sitting at an idle win10 desktop. The fan noise is definitely higher than I’ve experienced on a wide variety of laptops over the last several years.
I used ThrottleStop on msomey prior laptops, but am unable to enable undervolting on this new Framework system.
System Configuration:
CPU: i7/1165G7
RAM: 2*8GB
SSD: Samsung 980 Pro/2TB
OS: Win10/21H1/19043.1151 + 120.2212.3530.0
I’m fully updated on win10, with no unrecognized devices in the system.
I’ve tried the BIOS’s Optimized Defaults & Custom Defaults, neither allowed undervolting via ThrottleStop. Performance measures somewhat better with the Custom Defaults.
Using the default “Balanced” Power Plan shipped with the system & while powered via USB-C, I notice that even after several hours sitting at idle on a table with good airflow in a 22C room, at idle the system never drops below about 3.6Ghz at an idle desktop (“idle” CPU load is ~25% as reported by TaskManager. Host Process for Windows Tasks alone is consuming 18–22% at idle.)
On battery power, the system is cool & quiet unless pushed hard.
Overall, I’d say that my experience sounds very similar to that reported in the Gizmodo review. I would definitely like to resolve this as it will improve ergonomics, power usage, and possibly performance. I’m willing to do experiments & provide data to suggestions. I’ve not yet checked the thermal compound or re-seated the cooler. The system is still in the factory delivered hardware state
I’ve seen the ongoinng discussions about ThrottleStop & Intel CPU microcode updates to prevent undervolting attacks. Is there any available mechanism for users to undervolt Framework systems?
Thank you for building this system & I look forward to your ongoing success!
Hi Gary, thanks for reporting this. Could you grab a tool like ThrottleStop or Downloads - Open Hardware Monitor and let us know what the package temperatures are reported at when sitting at idle or normal use and also when under heavy load (like running Cinebench)?
Since my initial post, I’ve evaluated fan noise & performance using the BIOS “Optimized Defaults” and “Custom Defaults”. Using the “Custom Defaults” produces better performance & less fan noise.
I’ve not researched what settings change between these two BIOS setting blocks, but in my case the “Custom Defaults” definitely seemed to resovle the high fan noise, lower performance, and hot temperatures.
Using the BIOS “Custom Default” settings, here are a collection of temperatures & canned benchmark results from ThrottleStop & it’s TSBench:
I also wanted to ask here mainly to see if it also has to do with the processor itself, because based on other review for laptops with similar processors it also runs hot (specifically in the case itself)
