I was shared this project below. Perhaps you may know it. you may get some ideas from the project!
Introducing ThinKeys. The first split ortholinear laptop keyboard with a pointing stick. - https://modulo.industries/
5 Likes
The Charybdis looks like a pretty cool board, I particularly like how the otherwise wasted volume that is inherent to a 3d keyboard is taken advantage of to house a trackball.
The challenge with a laptop unit is of course, having mastered a 3D board, to constrain the design within only two dimensions.
1 Like
Greetings everyone.
My apologies for the late update.
In the light of the awesome announcements from the 2023 Framework Event, I fell compelled to at least give an update on this project, especially given the announcement regarding a potential QMK compatible ortholinear keyboard for the FW16 (???).
So far, the idea of this project was to cut out the grid from an original FW laptop’s input cover, re-arrange them to a desirable layout, while design the matrix keyboard using vinyl sheets and copper foil tape.
Cutting out the aluminium frame with the hooks that hold the butterfly switches required a great deal of patience and care:
The next step was to cutout the vinyl sheets to match the shape of the keyboard, and lay the copper foil to form the matrix, with wires coming out to be connect to an Elite C.
Previously, I managed to get a small cluster of 2x4 keys working with the Elite C, but once scaled up, it turned out that the keyboard matrix was very unstable, hardly usable: some keys would behave as if always pressed, and the overall keyboard was very sensitive.
It seemed like it could hardly take some daily driving.
I had already cut the default grid of the input cover, 3D printed a clear grid with the desired columnar staggered layout to match with the custom grid.
The Elite C was to be mounted in the middle of the custom input cover, and a workaround to connect it to the input cover’s via the sensor print finger was essentially ready.
Unfortunately, the overall project has yet to pan out, as the keyboard itself was not stable for a good enough user experience.
Nevertheless, I would like to leave a few pics of the expected final product, as a proof of concept / source of inspiration for later, or an example of what could be 
For now, I have been looking into other ways to make a reliable enough keyboard matrix for daily driving.
MX Cherry Ultra Low Profile sounds promising, but this will require a bit of work to wire around and design thin enough support plate / PCB while fitting within the 3.8 mm allowed by the FW 13’s chassis.
In the meantime, I am looking forward to see other projects or even official FW ortholinear input covers.
26 Likes
Awesome project !
I use a typematrix 2030 since +10y and I really love orthogonal keyboard.
The typematrix got the del and return keys in the middle of the layout. Because those keys are used so often, it’s logical to use the stronger finger, the index/pointer.
Anyway, your project makes me dream of an alternative keyboard layout for framework laptop… I’m going to follow closely. Thanks a lot.
3 Likes
This is the sort of keyboard layout I’ve been wanting so badly. I’m glad someone has had the courage to experiment on this front.
I want to give my thumbs and pinkies a bit more responsibility so I’d be aiming to integrate onto the FWL16 and either removing the trackpad entirely, or more likely surrounding it with keys either side, assuming I ever reach this point, and it’s possible to have input modules larger than large.
Excellent work so far, and thank you for sharing. I hope I may get to see it to it’s finale!
7 Likes
@dosssman we’re exploring a possible path to offering single-key modules that are mounted on thin PCBs, which are then soldered individually upwards into a PCB lattice that serves as both the electrical connection and the mechanical structure. Let us know if you think that would work for you.
25 Likes
@nrp Thank you very much for your answer, as well as supporting the project so far.
That would be incredible.If we can have a thin enough modular single switch like the 1U size keycap, then the PCB might be integrated into the input cover to maintain the low profile…
For custom layouts, it would definitely be easier to work on a PCB directly.
EDIT: I wonder how would the PCB be integrated to the input cover though.
Looking forward to updates on those modular single switches!
6 Likes
It‘s very nice to hear that message, but will it support zmk or qmk firmware? It is also very important feature for keyboard enthusiasts.
2 Likes
I think maybe it’s QMK, not ZMK.
Introducing the Framework Laptop 16
…
We’ve also released open source firmware based on QMK keyboard software that runs on the Raspberry Pi RP2040 microcontroller that many of our Input Modules utilize.
…
3 Likes
This would only be for the Framework Laptop 16. For Framework Laptop 13, it’s still the challenge that the Input Cover has specific hole placements in it.
4 Likes
Thanks for the precision. Hopefully with some thin enough single modular key switches that can be mounted upward, at least for this project I could work on a thin enough PCB that replaces the default grid of the input cover, with all the necessary traces for the keyboard matrix, making the overall solution more reliable than the current re-arranged membrane keyboard.
3 Likes
Getting QMK would be an epic milestone. ZMK will most likely come later naturally as adoption progresses right as itll gather more and more attention etc.
3 Likes
I’d expect QMK since they’re using it on most of the modules.
Why ZMK? I thought ZMK’s big advantage over QMK is Bluetooth support, which isn’t really needed for a laptop integrated keyboard… Does it have some additional compelling features beyond BT support? Is it easier to program or compile?
Seriously asking - I’ve a little experience with QMK but none with ZMK, so I don’t know the arguments one way or the other.
2 Likes
If the keyboard module had Bluetooth, it might be possible to pop out the keyboard, plug in a tiny battery, place the laptop on a stand, and end up with a much more ergonomic working position without needing to carry around a separate keyboard.
Though, this could possibly also be achieved by using the PCB as the male USB-C socket and just plugging it into the computer when using the keyboard externally.
3 Likes
Huh - hadn’t thought about a removable laptop keyboard; that’s an interesting idea… My personal preference is for a split ortho with the halves shoulder-width apart - laptop fits between them that way - but I suppose that would be possible this way too!
Yeah, interesting - thanks for the reply!
3 Likes
If you write the config yourself, you will find that ZMK has a much simpler syntax to achieve certain function. For example, combo is much easier to write in ZMK compared to QMK, because ZMK bind combo to key position, but QMK bind to key itself. So, if you have some modtap or layertap, you have to write the very long name every time you bind the combo. And to config the timeout for each combo, you have to write a function in QMK to return a timeout time, but in ZMK you just need to write a timeout-ms = which is more like a config and more convenient.
But if you use a GUI to set the key bindings, is not much different in term of functionality (ZMK has much more features, but generally, both functionality is enough for most users). And QMK has the ability for really time rebinding, so it is much easier for most users.
4 Likes
That’s really interesting - thanks for sharing some context.
I’m about to start a keyboard build - split ortho with some custom inputs - and I was looking at either QMK or KMK; I’d initially dismissed ZMK because I don’t need the BT support, but I’ll be sure to look at ZMK as well
2 Likes
That’s a interesting possibility. Though why stop there? A split keyboard is more ergonomic.
Some of the possibilities that the Framework 16 design offers us are really fun.
For usb-c, Framework said 3.7mm of height is available for the keyboard and input modules, a mid-mount usb-c port would fit within that. Also, the RP2040 has built-in usb support so that would be easy.
3 Likes
@dosssman Created an account just to say thanks for all the work you’ve done around this post/project. I will say the day Framework 16 was announced I looked up if a staggered ortho was going to be available and I found this post. Since then been checking every couple days for progress. Currently still using my 2013 Macbook that I got for college as my travel computer and dread bringing all my custom peripherals from my main pc. Haven’t bothered getting a new laptop as typing on exclusively ortho staggered splits in Colemak-dhm means typing on laptops without separate peripherals just feels wrong (even with colmak overlays). Although, if Framework or the Marketplace was able to sell this style of keyboard for Framework 16 I would buy a Framework laptop on the spot. Don’t think they have a referral program but it would all be thanks to you!
6 Likes
@Thomas_Brooks Thanks a lot for the support, and welcome to the community.
This project is a bit on standby, as I am currently looking forward to hear more from Framework about single modular keys that could be helpful for this project:
I am still trying to come up with a reliable way to make a pure DIY keyboard matrix, but it is quite challenging due to the height constraint
If they can really make it happen, keyboard layouts that fit the user’s preference could be made, especially for the FW16.
Best regards.
5 Likes