I just got my Framework 16 DIY yesterday. Last night when I was installing software, I felt a tingly sensation on my wrist. It felt weird and when I pressed my wrist fully on the corners of the laptop, it gave me a big shock that jolted my arm up.
Is this happening to anyone else?
I am trying to isolate it. So far it seemed to be near the lower corners of the laptop. Where the wrists rest on when typing.
It’s this corner:
Could it be your wrist hairs getting caught in the panel gaps? I don’t have a FW16 but I’ve heard people mention this happening before.
Is your laptop properly grounded? If you have a multimeter you can check the voltage of the chassis
Adding on to that – what power supply is in use? Presumably this only happens when it’s plugged in to AC, is that with the Framework power adapter, or a 3rd party one? Does the AC lead have a ground pin? If so, does the chassis show short to ground when on AC? Alternatively, if the AC adapter is plugged into the laptop, but not plugged into the wall, does the chassis read short to the ground pin?
Is there anything that might cause static electricity (like wool or polyester) in the area?
And do you have the same issue if you swap the spacers (right and left)?
Are you using our 180 W adapter?
Are you plugging your power adapter into a grounded power outlet?
Thanks!
I was thinking the initial tingly was my wrist get scratched by the panel gaps. But the main shock was strong enough that my arm bounced off. Also, my inside wrist have no hair.
I was using the power supply provided by Framework. It was plugged in properly to a 3 prong grounded outlet. But I made a mistake of plugging in the USB-C to the back of the laptop first. To where the USB-C for the display was dedicated. Would that energize the laptop?
I was just wearing a cotton shirt and sweat pants.
I got reply from FrameWork. Hopefully it’s not a critical problem so I can keep the laptop.
Such a shock is more likely that you have gathered static and it is being discharged through the aluminium case to earth via the power supply.
When not plugged in this can’t happen, unless you attache a wire between the chassis and ground, which could confirm.
If it was a power leak it would be constant.
I doubt the chassis will gather that much static but you try and measure if it does.
All the best
The FrameWork support contacted me and I agree that it may be the static discharged from the initial un-boxing. I haven’t felt the tingly sensation since the first day and I hope that’s a one-off thing.
Will continue to use the laptop. Will check if I get shocked again. Hopefully that will never happen.
I’ve pin pointed the problem of Framework 16 shocks. It’s related to my old MSI laptop. I get shocks only on the 2 occasions when I was transferring data between my old MSI MS-16W1 laptop and the new Framework 16 DIY lapto. I get the tingly sensation when I get close to bridging my wrist between the 2 laptops. Got a big jolt the first time and got the tingly sensation the second time.
Both laptops were powered by the same power bar.
I’m going to find another laptop to test out on to see if the discharge is caused by my old MSI laptop or the new FrameWork laptop.
I’m actually planning on buying a framework laptop as well (Framework 13), however I’m very sensitive for these kind of small currents. Sometimes it’s called “AC leakage”.
Since all framework laptops are made of metal, it’s conducting very well. Dell website even has a dedicated article about it: Notebook “Tingle” Sensation: What's Going On? | Dell USA
In my case it’s not harmless, after 1 day using such a device I’m really feeling it. My whole hand and fingers hurt the whole night. So you could say I’m very sensitive to these kind current leaks. This was the main reason I also needed to return my Fairphone 5 (too bad).
So my question: Is there still a small amount of current leakage happening via the metal case?? What about during charging the laptop?
@FlorisNielssen @Personability I have the same question to you two. Since I notice that you are also sensitive to these kind of small leak currents.
Please, anybody who have more information, reply!
I think I only notice it with specific a charger.
With the 60W FW charger: no problem. Which makes sense, since it has an earth connection that is also connected to GND on the low voltage side of the charger.
With an Anker 735 GaNPrime 65W: also not a problem. Although it is not grounded, it is either of high quality, or well isolated I guess. (Or both.)
With my Nintendo Switch charger: definitely noticeable. But I only use that when I hook it up to a television to watch a movie or something. But then it is ‘just standing there’ and I’m not working on it. So that’s no real problem for me.
I measured it, and the voltage between the metal chassis and the ground is 72V
Edit: the power supply is ungrounded and the leakage current is 0.45mA
That doesn’t seem right. The chassis its self should already be ground.
If using an ungrounded power supply then with a high impedance meter, such as the digital one in the photo, the chassis voltage may show around half mains voltage. On this basis I would take it that the mains voltage for the displayed case is 230V, rather than 110, but it may show more than half supply on either voltage.
Circuit ground is not power ground,the former is all negative poles of a circuit are connected together to have the same potential, power ground is connecting the case of the device to Earth. All power bricks are isolated transformers, i.e. the mains voltage is blocked from the output and you can’t get electrocuted by 110V/230V. However, a non-ideal circuit always has some capacitance, said capacitance can make some AC power “dodge” the isolation and to the output.
You said none of that in your post I responded to.
If you have an acute sensitivity to stray currents get yourself a quality antistatic matt like what a technician uses at an electronics workstation. You can get them from Digikey, Mouser, probably even Grainger.
This should dissipate these small currents felt for an extended period of time.
If the concern is about the case being conductive; getting a DBRAND skin or go to a local sign shop and ask them to “wrap” the laptop in vinyl.
This isn’t a property of the laptop (outise of it having a conductive case or not) but a property of the charger.
The legal limits for it are unfortunately quite a bit above what is noticeable for most people.
This guy does pretty thorough charger reviews including often the “leakage current” which is what you care about here.
The official framework chargers are actually pretty good at that bit thanks to being some of the rare actually grounded pd chargers.
A skin like the dbrand would also help by making the laptop mostly not conductive, at least where the skin is. Depending on your hand placement you may still touch exposed metal sometimes.
First of all, thank you all for replying to my request for info! And the hints you gave me if I indeed might suffer for this problem, like the dbrand skin.
Are you sure? I had a fairphone 5 mobile phone, which also gave me some kind of leakage current, even when the phone was NOT charging via USB. So no charger connected, yet still gave me those ‘tingle’ sensation in my hand and fingers. Especially around the corners of the phone. Note: fairphone 5 is also made of a metal body. Similar to a iPhone. As if the battery was also leaking current somehow, so not AC from the mains electricity per se.
No connection to anything?! Unless you are near a freaking tesla coil or something there can’t really be current flowing.
That’s not how electricity works, current doesn’t just leak out of a battery, there has to be a circuit. And even if you were to touch both poles of the battery (which is extremely unlikely in a working phone) a phone battery is way too low voltage to have feel-able current flowing through a human body.
If you get the tingling from devices that are not connected to anything and only touching you it is most likely not an electric phenomenon.
Is it possible this is just a quirk of your perception? I used to have a laptop that had a very weird surface texture that did kind of feel like the tingling you get from leakage current if you dragged a finger over it very lightly. My dad also described cold feeling a bit like electricity (and he’d definitely know how electricity feels) when he got chemo but I doubt that is the case here.
