Agree with this as well.
So far, to my subjective perception, we / customers QC the QC more so with Framework products than other laptop brands in that ‘premium’ price range (cough expensive initial capital for what you physically / tangibly get). This also creates a wider-than-normal user experience OOTB…and creates tension in the forum (e.g. I have this issue, I don’t have this issue, you’re just picky…etc).
I’ve tried to retype this message ten different times while citing Louis Rossmann or whoever else people already know about, but Second_Coming beat me to the punch, so I’ll just say this:
Fuck Apple. Fuck these opportunitistic pricks that are suddenly playing nice in customer service because their M-series laptops actually threaten the Windows market now. They will treat customers like shit again once they feel like they can get away with it.
It’s so frustrating man. I want Framework to do well as best as a private company can. If this company goes under from bad products (or somehow sells itself out,) it’ll be a devastating loss to mobile computing as a hobby
I agree, to a point. I am capable of repairing my laptop (well, at least I think that I am), but I could take it to a third party for repair if need be due to time or skill considerations.
In a similar vein, the range that I have is very user-servicable, but I have at times had a third party do the work. Fortunately that person has been kind enough to let me observe them working and discuss, such that I now feel comfortable with repairs to it that I might not have tried before.
I valued the ability to user service in both cases, and am ok engaging a third party when I see fit.
For me, my Framework machines fit nicely into what I want from “machines” in my life.
Enshitification: Cory Doctorow explains Who Bro…–The Big Story – Apple Podcasts
Three-step recipe: Get user buy-in, Get User locked in, financial extraction to share holders.
Sorry, it was a “Big Bang Theory” reference
BAZING— oh…
At least plastic won’t deform like aluminium.
Yeah exactly, My 13 has a dent on the top cover >:\
Not to mention, I don’t know how many times I’ve seen someone on Reddit with a destroyed FW13 after dropping it on one of the corners.
Metal can be nice, but it is absolutely not the most durable thing on earth. I’m personally glad they went with the plastic TPU thing. I enjoy electronics I don’t have to baby as much.
When the material is stressed over its elastic limit, plastic will crack while aluminum will bend, the former can be easily super glued.
I typically see aluminium casing as a partial indirect indicator of how much TLC (or abuse) a product has had when I’m buying 2nd-hand. Any substantial shock (drops)…will leave a mark.
I also tried to bend my FW12 after seeing the review and I do have to use some strength to bend it a little, so I not really that worry about daily use.
I do see the worry of potential shorted pogo pin mentioned above though.
If something sucks for user repairability, then it absolutely sucks for repairability. Having convenient options to have your device repaired for you is all well and good (and highly dependent on where you live) but let’s not give the John Deere of computers any credit they don’t deserve.
Yeah, I guess. I don’t think their failures exceed industry standards, is my point. They tend to only exist in the Gen1 products before processes are fine tuned. I once got four Apple Iphone 4S in a row with faulty speakers, microphones, or both. Bad QC, QA, or just bad hardware I don’t know. No way to tell if there would have been improvements because each model is a new chance to screw up. From defective display cables, to poor design for the placement of said cables, to the infamous 16" Macbook Pro failures that don’t just kill the board but destroy all your data as well…QC, QA, or bad design.
So yeah in a perfect world these problems don’t exist and QA, QC work perfectly every time…in reality it is simply not the case. I will take iterative improvement in this instance, over the fantasy.
Also holding up Apple as a good example of repair…yeah I guess that is what happens when you have to replace the motherboard for just about any failure even if it is a 12 cent part.
But that be the same for framework wouldn’t it? If you blow a capacitor, knock off the wrong 12 cent SMD, or damage a FPC/FFC Connector, unless your skilled and equipped to do PCB rework, you are just buying a new mainboard. “Reapiring” any consumer electronic device now a days, even a framework, really just means replacing components. Unfortunately, there aren’t too many “Lois Rossman” type repair shops left in most cities in the world.
For board-level repairs, yeah it’s gonna be a full board replacement for most people. I don’t really want to get my own hot air station and learn to solder microchips. Don’t have a Louis Rossmann nearby either
I hope Framework’s current profit margins can weather low sale volumes or the niche amount of Linux customers it has, because it’s tough to beat how much value Apple laptops offer, now that I’ve learned that they have repairs for so cheap (for now) with performance that’s so good. Even I would have to recommend Macbooks to any friends or family that absolutely want nothing to do with the friction of troubleshooting tech- I still hate the slow invasion of ads in Windows 11 more than the slippery slope of Apple’s wealth-extracting ecosystem. At least you know what to expect in the latter…
All that aside, my FW12 arrives on Tuesday- hope I didn’t get a lemon, because I’ll still be trying to use it as long as I can o7
I’ve opened my FW 12 again and took a close look at the pogo pins:
One of the captive screws driven from the bottom of the case into the top cover helps secure the contact pads to the pogo pins. So I wouldn’t worry about them, assuming all screws were properly fastened.
Except you can source the parts, where as Apple makes that 12 cent part nearly impossible to source. Once again unintentionally showing a first world, U.S. bias. Those Louis Rossman type shops exist just about everywhere except the U.S.
Also if you are latching on to the 12 cent part while ignoring the rest like the Apple Macbook Pro 2012 display cable issue…hey replace your whole motherboard because “display cable”…then you are mistaking the tree for the forest.
Love your videos by the way, even though I often disagree with a number of your conclusions.
Ironically though you can get schematics for apple products (even if it is not intended by apple) whereas I have not found framework schematics just floating around on the internet XD.
So from a me having a chance to fix my own thing I am actually in a better spot with a thinkpad or something that has schematics “available” than the framework.
It is kind of a shame that framework tends to get 90% of the way with stuff but then misses some essential bits. We get an open source ec but no code or doccumentation for the pd controller firmware so we can’t really fix the stuff they aren’t after all.
In China you can buy a MacBook with lowest RAM and SSD, go to one of the individual repair shops and have them solder a larger RAM and SSD. It’s overall cheaper than buying the same MacBook with high RAM/SSD. On one hand Framework products are not available in China, on the other hand maybe Chinese people don’t need modular laptops after all.
Huh? Have you seen their github account?
