I know it isn’t available to pre-order yet, and there isn’t even a known starting price. But I’m still a bit surprised to see a couple dozen topics about the desktop, and only a few for the FW 12.
It’s probably because it’s a lot more straightforward product. And I know folks have expressed disappointment that Framework didn’t just release a touchscreen for the FW 13. But I’m just curious if anyone is excited about a cheaper, smaller, lighter Framework laptop with a touch-screen, 360 degree hinge, and stylus support?
If I didn’t already have a FW 13, I’d be very tempted. For a “daily driver,” I could get by with something less powerful than the FW 13. I’m interested to see what the pricing will be.
I’m definitely excited – not because it’s cheaper and smaller, but because it’s a 2-in-1 with touchscreen and stylus. I’m absolutely excited about that form factor with good linux support and repairability!
I’m real curious about price, weight, and the stylus tech, but no matter the answers, I’m looking forward to it!
Yeah I love the product myself. I am sad to see the chassis is less recyclable, but it’s also much more repairable, will likely be cheaper, and aparently more durable because of it.
I’m most happy to see the pen. This’ll be a great small device to chuck into a bag and take with me. I do some drawing as a hobby so being able to have a reasonable device to carry around for all uses will be great. I hope it has pressure support but understand if it doesn’t. As for the touch screen, and 360 hinge that’d be great for drawing on the go. Really the size, the durability, and stylus support have me sold. This is a very nice product if the price is right. I know since it’s framework (small producer making a custom non-standard product which isn’t just some white label) it’ll be a bit pricier than its competition though.
It’ll be great to take to conferences to take notes, browse the internet, do some light coding locally where needed while ssh-ing into my main pc to compile larger projects.
I assume I’m not the main target audiance, as this seems like a product suited for younger students and mass sale to schools but I like it quite a bit.
Heck yeah! I want to put the motherboard into an old thinkpad chassis (with a very high capacity battery) and be able to use that goober in the rain and test out linux on it. it is so cool and I’m hoping that the mainboard is pretty cheap (>400 new)
Have to say as FW13 owner, still really excited about the 12".
although I propably wont be ordering one as the fw13 handles my stuff fine. Sometimes it just would be nice to have a more compact machine when travelling.
Interesting to see how will the battery life be with the smaller battery and older Intel board. That might be the only issue that comes to my mind at this point.
battery life should be better because of the smaller screen, only one RAM socket (half of the power draw compared to fw13, and the processor’s sustained boost TDP (PL1) being limited to 15w (due to it being a u series chip and not a p series chip) compared to the fw13 having a minimum sustained power consumption (from processor) of 28w with some people even sustaining closer to 40w. In short, battery life will be as good if not better than the fw13 considering the processor/screen/ram draws much less power and the battery is 50wh.
If you look at the promotional material, the pen has a usb C port on the side meaning it’s an active stylus. It will definitely have pressure support, the only question is how many levels. My current theory is that they’re going to use USI stylus technology (check this thread), which means the amount of pressure sensitivity is up to Framework to decide. An advantage of USI is that if you’re unsatisfied with the included pen, the FW12 will be compatible with any USI pen from other brands like Logitech, HP, etc.
Thank you greatly, after reading this thread that brings some strong hope. Whatever tech they use, you and the others make a convincing argument that this’ll be more than just a simple stylus. I do hope they use something that’s supported for both windows and linux, unlike USI.
Hey, as long as it has pressure support and works on linux I can work with any flaws while being very happy.
Framework is looking to bulk sell these to school students so it’s guaranteed to work on Windows, no matter what technology they end up using. And I think it’s almost guranteed that they’ll also add Linux support because it’s a big part of why people choose the brand (Also cursory search tells me USI is already supported by some distros).
I am very much looking forward to the 12. It is a size that I much prefer. I don’t consider the 13 ultra portable in anyway. The thing is huge to me. However, the 13 is fantastic.
I was thinking that I would try to make my UMPC project a little smaller with the smaller board, but I think I’m going to stick with the 13 mainboard, due to the increase RAM capacity.
Still the 12, I wont be tempted to take apart. I’ll use it just like it is. I am hoping that the plastic and metal reinforced enclosure will be as durable as the 13 and 16 enclosures.
My AMD FW 13 has been luckily flawless and has worked out great for me. But I agree, I’d prefer a slightly smaller, lighter form factor for a daily use machine. Even when I’m not traveling, I use this thing in my chair in the living room, on the kitchen counter, in the garage, etc. Plus I travel with it as well. The 13 works totally fine for me, and I love the 3:2 display. But I would definitely appreciate a slightly smaller, lighter form factor.
My FW 13 works for me, so I probably won’t buy the 12 to replace it. But it’s a cool form factor. And while touch-screen and even tablet mode is normally a total non-factor for me, pen support is one thing that kinda makes a touch screen interesting for me.
I doubt I’ll switch, unless someone in my family gives me a call and asks if I happen to have any old laptops for sale, lol. Then maybe I’ll consider it.
I believe the Framework team did a lot homework and made a lot of right decisions to come to offering a 12" product.
Just my viewpoints:
Pros:
Intel 13th gen processors are a LOT less expensive but nearly as powerful than their flagship processors now
Want to influence the next generation of tech enthusists? Get them in the hands of students.
Still wildly repairable just like their other products
Lower manufacturing costs with the case and materials
Enhanced durability (have you seen how kids treat electronics?)
A touchscreen (hopefully this will quell the chatter about Framework not having one)
Colors (should not be a deciding factor but neither should have been RGB 20 years ago)
Uses the same expansion cards
It is easier to experiment and test out on smaller things (i.e. 12" laptop with the right number of features) than it is to make the Laptop for all (which may never exist)
Price! (When we finally know it)
Cons:
12" is not great for older adults but this is not what this is geared toward
Cheaper material feel (some people get hung up on this)
Doesn’t have X or Y feature (insert your own obscure one-off minority focused use case here)
May not last 36 hours
Diluting the product portfolio from Framework (i.e. needing to support more models with each having their own unique issues)
Does not fit parts from Framework 13 other than expansion card or the reverse; parts from Framework 12 will not fit the Framework 13
This display will not be good enough for X (again there will be Goldilocks users)
Does not have LTE/5G natively built-in (because using a phone as a hotspot is too hard)
Cost too much compared to an E-waste Chromebook
In order for Framework to really get a broader foothold in the marketplace new products attracting a different crowd are necessary. This, along with the Framework desktop is what the team decided is the next logical step in keeping that ethos. I sincerely hope this truly influences schools and businesses to rethink what they are spending on disposable products.
Pretty excited. Checking the product page daily to see if they published more details. Yes - I am subscribed too
I’ll most likely get one. No matter what. It will be a dedicated travel notebook. Had a pretty similar Lenovo previously that was just getting too slow. Browsing was still OK-ish, maybe even Video, but many apps were just too sluggish to use. It was a convertible with touch screen, screen diagnal an inch smaller, robust plastics case, pen was even housed inside the laptop.
There simply is not anything available in this form factor currently. Except maybe Chromebooks with really weak CPUs.
Read through the other discussions in the forum and on reddit and it really is a 13 inch form factor though. 12 inch (or less) might be the display because of the bezels, but dimensions are almost the same as my 13" work laptop. I get that they did need a name to differentiate from the 13 though.
Really hoping for a backlit keyboard. Marketing material and competition in this form factor make me fear it might be missing. Hopefully at least available as paid upgrade if not standard.
Don’t care about the screen specs much. And hopefully upgradeable in a few years to something better. Battery life is hopefully good, seeing the capacity is even smaller than the 13. Sold my 13 due to the weak battery life. But not a deal-breaker for a travel notebook for me. Not sure if i3 or i5 would be better there.
Edit: Hope that specs are released soon and we can stop guessing - excited for that day. Most interested in:
weight
dimensions (although we have a pretty good estimate from the pictures)
battery life (most likely no statement to be expected, but still hoping)
I agree with those three, but I’d also like to know price.
I think one of the big things that could have legitimately led me to selling the FW13 and getting the 12 for daily use would be better battery life and less heat. If it was reasonably fast while still having better battery life and less heat, I’d be pretty darn tempted to switch. My understanding is that the processors chosen were primarily chosen for price. I suspect they’ll draw less max power than the AMD processors in the FW13, but will they be more efficient in daily tasks? Hard to say. And the battery is smaller. So I’m not hopeful that it will have better battery life than the FW 13. Granted, the battery life in my FW 13 is fine. But I’d love for it to be exceptional.
Price for sure. Knowing myself it won’t matter though.
I honestly don’t think it will be much smaller or lighter than the 13. Pleasantly surprised if it weighs 250+g less than the 13.
Don’t expect anything from battery life with v1. Hoping for an upgrade option to one of the newer - much more efficient - AMD or Intel CPUs a few years into the future.
TDP isn’t a very accurate way of determining efficiency. The 7840U can be capped 15W using power saver profile. Being AMD Smokeless_UMAF and ryzenadj are useful tools of manipulating TDP. However when using the CPU 41W sustained, the keyboard gets uncomfortably hot and it’s on the lower end of efficiency past 30W.
The FL12 has plastic casing, which means hot internal is less likely to make the keyboard too hot to touch. However the CPU being Intel means it’s harder to configure TDP.
I’m excited for more info about it. It will be a deal breaker for me if the screen cannot support 8192 levels of tilt and pen pressure from the stylus pen.
iirc I ran the numbers and its something like 11.2" wide and 8.4 inches deep, maybe 0.6-0.75" thick
judging by fw13 battery life with a cpu with double the TDP, light usage should be at least 10 hrs
The dimensions sound about right. Hopefully it is lighter - would be awesome if it was around or even less than 2.2lbs
The Asus Chromebook CR11 flip looks very similar at first glance. Even has the same battery capacity. Was getting worried, as it is even heavier than the 13. But the monitor is just 11.6" and 12 is 12.2". So there is hope a lot of tiny refinements led to a lighter device.
Looked through all the marketing images and sadly no brightness adjustment icon on any of the keys. So keyboard very likely not backlit. Fingers crossed there will be an update in the future. Or maybe it’s one of those things that changes with actual launch.
I think I have to avoid the forum for a bit. At least until the real specs are published. Spending too much time and making myself crazy. All for guesswork anyway.
