Explainer: Lid rigidity, hinge force, the CNC Top Cover, and the new 4.0kg Hinge Kit

My idea is to drill a hole and add a nylon screw to push down on the inner part. :slight_smile: When it gets to the point of wanting to tighten ~} I’ll how easy that is

Good to see framework working on improving the hinge.
Hinge is a crucial moving part, if you look at profesional laptop like Thinkpad and others they have been testing and advertising the solidity of the hinge/ opening closing the screen thousands times. Any moving part in a laptop brakes first : trackpad, keyboard, hinges.

Now on this forum who really cares about “one hand opening” ?
In which situation you cannot use your two handes to open your computer ?

Personally I would love a computer with a working lid at 4kg(or whatever) than a non working lid a 3kg…because this will wear out and in 2 years a weak lid will be broken…

Are you shipping the next batches with 4Kg hinges ?
Bottom line, when you close the door of a BMW you feel it is sturdy, I want this kind of feeling on my upcoming framework laptop. Not interested in a “one finger” closing my car door :smiley:

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No! it has been noted ~ ten posts prior ??

When you only have one hand or during a balancing act

My super petty must-have feature: one handed opening

This probably seems silly, but I am looking for a Windows laptop that I can open smoothly with one finger. I have other features I want too (listed below), but since I’m looking in the $1000-$1500 (USD) range, I have a hard time dropping that kind of cash on a laptop that lacks this simple luxury.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SuggestALaptop/comments/4e313g/my_super_petty_musthave_feature_one_handed_opening/

and of course

Thks Amoun, for your kind explanations.
If there is a user need in the framework community for this, I guess it s nice to have. I don t want to be polemic at all.
On my side of the screen I don t see it. Obviousely for people one handed that make perfect sens. Now I don t see the people pictured in your article around me … It looks very silicon valley ish :wink: Maybe the solution is méditation for those persons, taking a breath :smiley: Anyhow if it s in there, I ll be happy to use it one handed.

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I think the design around this one-handed opening is partially inclusivity.

And, if I can do it with less, then why do it with more (hands).

As a feature, one-handed opening can been done, and has been done (right) by other manufacturers, but that seriously requires some R&D to get it spot on, consistently, reliability, time after time…for each unit, and with a high assembly yield / success rate of passing the QC (if / when put in place).

This is a feature that Framework hasn’t been able to chew successfully.

i.e. It’s not really about ‘why’ it should / shouldn’t be a feature. It’s more about, if it’s a feature, you better make it right. Otherwise, it’s just another hole to trip in (which it has). This has been a pre-mature ambition on the design. One that has resulted in feature failure. Compound this with the resonance issue…hinge is definitely an issue here.

Take a look here:

…and this as another example of good implementation:

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And I wanted a touch screen, but I can see why now it would have been a big problem given the lack of ridgidity and weak hinges :frowning:

I can wait a few years or a decade :slight_smile:

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I wonder if/when a touchscreen get offered if the 4kg hinges will be the default for that config?

I’ll be honest, I’m the type that really doesn’t care at all about one-finger opening and would take a stronger, more rigid hinge any day of the week, so I’m slightly sad that you can’t select the 4kg hinges even on the DIY model and that it’s purely an aftermarket item at this time.

I guess I’ll just have to buy all the parts separately from the marketplace and make my own “super DIY” model? :stuck_out_tongue: (my plan was to actually just start with a mainboard on its own as a sort of derpy DIY’d NUC, though not in any sort of fancy housing like Elevated Systems does - I’m fine with bare PCB just sitting around on cardboard or the like)

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that’s a bit of a bummer.

Honestly for 13 inch (even 14 inch, or 15 inch) one-handed opening is never on the “i want that” list.
Look at Dell XPS, for example. None of them are one-handed opening.
The only downside with a stiff hinge is that the chassis will experience more stress when the lid angle is being adjusted.

Well.
3.3Kg/cm is “okay”, and 3.8 is on the stiff part. But 2.8 is just too low.
This is the nature of unadjustable hinges, I guess.
I think the hinge shiuld be made as nominal 3.6Kg/cm with tolerance of ± 0.4kg/cm. Maybe 0.5kg/cm. This way the hinge will never get lower than 3.2kg/cm (which is workable) and higher than 4kg (which is on the stiff part but still workable)

Alternatively, just come up with a adjustable design so we can end this convresation. I don’t care if the hinge cost $30 a pair.

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This, because that’s repairability and sustainability all in one. Not to also mention customizable to each user’s preference.

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At first it seem pretty simple – just make two brackets that are pressed together by a spring so they rotate along one axis while generating friction. However, if you look at the current layout of the display it seems that there isn’t a lot of room to house the mechanism.
Now this is not to say that such a design cannot be done. It absolutely can, but not in a traditional way. (and might include significant extra tooling costs)

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Honestly, Framework focusing engineering efforts on a hinge would be a waste of time, and the design itself would be prone to breaking. Hinges are a weak spot due to the need for them to be actioned every time the laptop is used. Introducing more complexity to their construction increases this inherent weakness. Keeping things as simple as possible is one of the better ways to improve sustainability.

Offering 2 hinges seems like the best way to accommodate the varying opinions of customers.

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To follow form the ‘other’ topic.

I agree that a simple hinge may be less liable to failure, but note second hinge had to be made and I’m pretty sure the ‘resonance’ issue, as acknowledge by Framework is not going anywhere soon.

So in terms of “the metric that I think lends itself to the customer the most” I think a flaky hinge on a laptop is a really bad sign and usability outweighs longevity.

I don’t see how the hinge thing is sustainable and some work on making an adjustable hinge viable.

After all this is use friendly laptop with an unfriendly hinge.

It can’t take that much work to have the hinge adjustable from inside with a small friction screw.

So I agree it’s down to want the user wants, but I have two reasons not to recommend this laptop, the hinges and the RTC battery.

It’s OK for freaks like me but not for the general public.

Unsustainable for mass sales also means it falls far short of what the user wants or expects in what appear to be two very small issues that have a disproportionally large impact.

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I see the 4.0kg hinge as a stop gap workaround at the moment…for the weak 3.3kg hinge. i.e. If one-handed opening is done right, you only need one hinge set (Dell, Lenovo, Apple) for that laptop model.

…due to the lack of resources (combination of time, money, people / experience / skill).

One-handed opening just shouldn’t be a ‘feature’ to start off with. Didn’t (still don’t) have the resources to tune it right, consistently, with high yield.

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Totally agree, that s why I am wishing for a default to 4kg hinge that works always and for long. Instead of a 3kg that works 80% of the time for 1 year…
And later when it is sorted out ad features. (even opening using your voice :smiley: )
Finally I am interested aswell in a futur touch screen and I guess it won t work with 3Kg hinges.
Anyhow, framework is pointing in the right diretion : improvement. Looking forward to receive my framework :santa:

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Note that the hinges are tested to 20,000 cycles. The issue with 3.3kg is not the force setting, but was a “quality escape” from our hinge manufacturer of hinges that were out of spec.

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4.0kg Hinge Kit

Thoughts: The 4.0 kg hinge is absolutely amazing. I now unequivocally recommend the framework since it is actually usable on my lap without the screen falling down!

What Could Be Better
I received and installed the 4.0 kg hinge kit after trying to get in contact with support using the button on their website. I left a detailed message, but nobody responded.

I wish I could have received the replacement part through warranty claim, since I had an earlier batch of frameworks that had extremely weak hinges.

All in all, I am very happy with the product though, and I find it incredible that I could fix the problem myself in less than 30 minutes.

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@nrp Is it at all possible for people buying the 12th gen board / upgrade kit to have a free 4Kg hinge kit optional add-on…as a loyalty reward kind of thing?

I think his answer will be “no” since there was some hinge that, well, are outside of the tolerances set by Framework and thus caused the screen to fall down.
I would love for you to be able to pick your own when configuring one, though.

That’s my point: For those people they would get a 3.3Kg hinge set by warranty anyway.

For people upgrading from 11–>12th gen, they will continue to either stick with the 3.3Kg (if they like the 3.3Kg) [This is upgrade population 1], Or, those don’t even want to try the 3.3Kg…and will go to 4.0Kg [This is upgrade population 2].

For those who fall in the Upgrade population 2:
It will just save Framework Support the time, warehouse packing, shipping to deal with [3.3Kg warranty fulfillment + FedEx shipout → Customer disappointment → Customer order 4.0KG → Fulfillment + FedEx ship out again].

By offering the 4.0Kg kit option for free when upgrading, as loyalty reward, I think it’s a win-win for everyone.

Update: I re-read what you wrote…Think you mean falling inside the acceptable tolerances set by Framework, but unsatisfactory by the customer.

Or, even just a one-time free hinge kit (be it 3.3 or 4.0) when upgrading. This way, everyone gets something that’s definitely in-spec. (Assuming no one abuse this…Don’t go getting something you don’t need)

That’s $32 waived for a $584 (board only), up to $1480 (board and lid) purchase.
5.5%, or as little as 2.16% of the purchase.

It won’t work. The tension must be super high and before you know it the screw strips.
Even with two metallic screw (on separate plates) the tension will still need to be very high. This high tension also means that fragments (of the shaft or the screw) may come off, which is undesireable.

Look at pictures of adjustable hinges. They all have a nut on the side and two circular spring plates pressing together two plates so they have maximum surface area (and circumference) to minimize tension needed