I’m thinking that all these issues are happening now during the manufacturing process. What happens when we receive the products and new issues start happening. Do we send it back for repair or replacement? Is there going to be some software batch to fix it? This is just too unreliable
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Other companies work through piles of issues when building their computers as well, they just aren’t open about the process.
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this is normal procedure for a new product. like, there is nothing out of the usual here except the fact they are telling us about it. while most companies hide this crap, they’re being open and transparent about their challenges and the solutions. treating us as the investors we nearly are, instead of just unimportant customers who are to be fed lines of BS and expected not to question it.
you would prefer to be lied to about what’s going on with the spin up process for a new product? there’s plenty of companies out there who’re happy to do that. you also have to remember that this is an INCREDIBLY small company. i believe the figure i last saw was 45 total employees. worldwide. they are performing miracles for that level of staffing.
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So, if people are cancelling their pre-orders presumably does that mean potentially the rest of the batches may get shipped sooner than what they would otherwise?
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It hasn’t even been delivered yet. How could it be judged unreliable?
Do you know what any other manufacturer, faced with 20% of the units being 5% under (5%!!!) spec on thermal headroom when run flat-out maximum load?
They would ship it. As is. And never say a word.
Framework has made a choice to be better here.
If Framework doesn’t play hardball with their suppliers, they will get steamrolled with substandard factory seconds, the final product will be unreliable junk, and that will be the end of everyone’s hope for a repairable, upgradable laptop with discreet GPU.
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This is what I think of them being transparent:
TL;DR: I am just glad they’re being transparent. Most other OEMs wouldn’t be even close to this transparent. And I don’t really have any other alternatives that fit my use cases, so I’m kind of stuck anyway…
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When should we expect to see reviews published?
It’s pretty reassuring that not only are they making public known issues, but also the updates on them getting fixed. You really wouldn’t see this from any other computer company. There have been numerous cases where companies have shipped defective products, hoping it won’t be as bad, or that people don’t notice… then if they do notice, write up an apology afterwards.
Between the 1st update and the 4th, we can see that several issues have already been fixed. I don’t mind the wait, because the transparency lets us know what’s going on. I wish more companies were like this…
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More likely they will tell you that you are the only person having a problem, so it must be the way you are using it …
You don’t happen to own a Tesla, do you? I see that they have had a major recall of a model that has been on the road for a while …
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Oh God no, no Tesla for me. I actually hate the idea of an electric car. I love the technology behind them but i do not think that electric car are good enough yet. That being said, I know about the recall in Teslas. I guess it is OTA recall. You install an update and that takes care of things.
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I read your comment and the comments of all the others that answered me. I have decided to not cancel my order. I would like to see Framework grow. I want to see them flourish and their business model to become the norm in the tech industry.
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Yep, just like with Apple and their half-assed apologies.
Dude, I think you’re going to be happy you waited. This company could potentially make an even bigger mark on the tech space if they get more support, and this is the best way to support them.
Not to mention, they are one of the few OEMs to offer AMD CPUs in 2023, which is huge in my opinion, especially given their U and HS series CPUs are more power efficient with better battery life than Intel CPUs. (They also have better iGPUs unless you count Meteor Lake, but that Arc iGPU just puts Intel roughly on par with AMD’s Radeon 780M.) And I think better battery life is what Intel laptops have missing these past two years, and I don’t see this trend changing in 2024.
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one of the things that convinced me to go with framework was seeing a reviewer of the amd fw 13 boards discovering it was battery-life competitive with an m2 pro macbook. to his visible bewilderment.
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Which reviewer?
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This. 100x this.
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I wonder how that works. I hear that no one is getting moved up in batch number, but if there are cancelations then the batches should be smaller. Wouldn’t that also mean they would get out faster?
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Yep.
Another advantage that I see to AMD is that on the current AMD CPUs all cores are equal.
I don’t really trust the OS to do a good job of determining what tasks to put on what cores. From what I’ve heard sounds like the hybrid architecture is working okay in most big programs for Intel on that aspect but I’d still prefer to get a CPU where all cores are equal for the time being.
Also, I have written a bunch of quick scripts for processing large-ish sets of data on my computer and I usually take an easy approach to implementing multi-threading where I divide the load into several (however-many threads my CPU has) equal sized chunks and assign each chunk to a thread, which works fine when all cores/threads are equal but isn’t optimal with hybrid architectures like Intel is using. I would rather have a CPU with all cores equal so that I don’t need to put in the effort of properly optimizing for different cores.
Even with the hybrid architectures AMD is using (like the up to 6-core Phoenix 2 architecture used in the 7440U/7545U/Z1 and the upcoming up to 12-core Strix Point processors next year) the small cores are pretty similar to the large cores, unlike Intel who uses completely different designs for the large and small cores.
To be clear I don’t think Intel necessarily made a bad choice by using a hybrid architecture, I just prefer to avoid that while there are still other good options.
I assume so.
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unrelated but I love community forums that are open to hearing others and can have a conversation without devolving into petty toxicity 
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looks like it was this one. found it through the fw blog of ‘some reviews are up’.
didn’t find many other reviews getting the same comparison, but “better battery life than i expected” did show up in other reviews i found.
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I deeply appreciate the transparency and details on the remaining issues with the Framework 16. For example:
These sorts of issues happen all the time, and I’m sure there are other brands that will address it - but if it’s like any other industry, there are brands that will just accept the poor thermal performance that limits how effective and not say anything. Having Framework not only admit that this is an issue, but state clearly that they aren’t releasing the Framework 16 until it’s been resolved, and how they’re going about doing it - it’s a great thing to see.
Without that sort of transparency, getting a charger that only seems to work right with the product it ships with might appear intentional, but saying what’s going on and what’s being done about it can only be a good thing.
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