Good points, thank you very much for your time! I feel something changing in my head, but I need to give it time to process 
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It has a good cooling system, the problem is that it does not allow the fan cords to be operated freely and the one that comes by default is very aggressive.
The fans lower their noise if you limit the processor to 99 percent within the power options or put the economy mode on. The problem is that all gaming equipment makes a lot of noise without these options, which makes it the same as a framework.
Although with a customized fan curve it would be easily solvable.
As for the support, it is good support, which responds to the user but the procedures are tedious.
On the other hand, I donât like the title of the post although I recognize that the framework does not seem to be very communicative regarding community requests. It also limits the fps to 60 fps. I still donât understand how these problems are common to gaming teams and the framework team doesnât appear to give these advice.
As for the charger, playing 2k and 60 fps you shouldnât have a problem but with everything at maximum it is normal to have problems because with my Asus and xmg I got the same problems with battery charging when playing at maximum.
Thank you all for your comments. Perhaps for many people all my problems with the laptop are just trifles, but when you pay that kind of money for a laptop, you want quality and support standards in terms of bios and driver updates, not searching for working drivers and how to install them and from what angle. And the poor bios settings are annoying, as for a laptop for such a price. If you buy a good device, you want adequate quality.
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First of all, I donât think calling something shit is âcorrect.â The engineering work done by the framework team is very good.
Secondly, I have to agree with you on some things and add:
-It is true that the drivers/bios issue is not up to what is expected in a device of this price.
-Although the support is good, it cannot be denied that it is tedious and there are some indefensible cases such as a computer being in firm for a month.
-The quality of the equipment is far from premium. The magnesium base scratches easily, and that is not the fault of the âinnovationâ as it does not happen in other older and less expensive equipment.
-The communityâs requests are not listened to, even many of the errors highlighted by streamers or youtubers on networks have not been corrected yet.
As you can see, there are many things that could be improved but I donât think calling it shit is the right thing to do since there is a very important engineering work and that has to be respected.
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The term âshitâ was in the topic to draw attention to the problems, but not everyone understood, unfortunately.
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I know, however, if the framework team has hardly paid attention to the criticism in the reviews, it will not do so with the users either.
They did an incredible job with framework 13 but I have the feeling that with framework 16 they are outdone and it raises a lot of doubts in my mind if we will see software and especially new hardware for framework 16.
Whatâs more, I think itâs more likely that we wonât see any more framework 16 updates, but they didnât commit to anything either.
This part I disagree with. I mean, itâs obviously true that a bunch of issues havenât yet been addressed. But I would be willing to bet my own money that Framework is listening to them, just not responding in public as a pragmatic decision.
Iâll eat my hat if Framework 16 updates arenât in the pipeline. Just⌠hardwareâs a long pipeline.
I think what theyâre doing is, first, listening, and second, being disciplined with a communication strategy. If nrp comes in here all the time talking about how theyâre planning to do this or that, every time something takes longer than planned is a âslipâ. Every thing he doesnât respond to is inexcusable non-response â what is he hiding?! Every change in plans was a lie. If people are impatient with lacking responses, theyâll be doubly so when theyâre waiting on something in particular. Just think of how crazy people were getting when Batch 1 deliveries were slow to get rolling.
If Framework is quiet, they can judge whatâs fixable, work on things as they can afford to, avoid committing to dates that will probably slip, and mostly deliver good news to the community when they do deliver news. All of the work is hard and time-consuming, and some of it realistically canât happen without degrees of redesign, or changing parts suppliers, or manufacturing processes, so on, all while maintaining compatibility with existing designs. They may not want to or, practically, be able to staff up in a sustainable way⌠theyâve got to stay solvent, before they do anything else. A lot of the work will be done by partner companies outside Frameworkâs direct control.
Social media is a pot, and stirring it makes it angry. Thatâs why they canât respond in a very open way, as nice as that would be for the minority who would appreciate it without misinterpreting it.
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I donât think they will listen to the community much if there are complaints about fan noise in both framework 13 and 16 for not being able to control things like the fans and they havenât resolved it yet.
By the way, today another complaint about the fan noiseâŚ
https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1g7ptwg/framework_13_review_disappointed/
I donât think they will listen to it much either, if the issue of bios or drivers continues exactly as bad.
And even less do I think they will hear it when their support (which worked well for me) continues to be very tedious.
And by the way, some small brands like xmg publish their roadmap for an entire year without prejudice to them making changes later.
The frame does not seem very transparent in this aspect.
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And another complaint todayâŚ
https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1g83nno/comment/lsw3bv6/?context=3
My point is more, âlisteningâ is not the same as âchanging things immediatelyâ. Itâs one thing to list out the problems with the Framework 16, but itâs another to be very confident that they point to an incorrect approach to gradually resolving those problems. Donât forget, Batch 20 was still shipping out⌠four months ago? Theyâre up to supporting, what, six, seven different motherboards on the Framework 13? Itâs not like theyâre not busy.
And they are publicly acknowledging these issues and talking about them, too. See, for example, Frameworkâs software and firmware have been a mess, but itâs working on them - Ars Technica, from earlier this year. It does say something about relying on Compal to staff up to round robin firmware updates in the first half of this year. Weâll know whether they can find a groove, what, another year from now?
These things take time. Part of what I like about this thread is, people who donât want to sign up for an early tinkererâs computer with issues should probably steer clear of the Framework 16 for another generation or two.
Itâs completely anecdotal, but my fans on my 11th gen FW13 are also fine â not saying itâs not a problem, but itâs hard to say what the problem is, or how Framework âshouldâ respond. It depends⌠and Iâm sure itâll only improve over time, barring the occasional bug or regression. For the Framework 16âs the fan noise â the laptop pushes a ton of air, and I think thatâs the idea. Weâll have to wait for hardware updates to deal with the high-pitched whining noise, and thereâs not a lot to talk about until then.
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If you guys are using Linux, there are two effective ways to deal the noise
- My preferred: cpupower to 4Ghz or less. This effectively avoids getting over 95C, therefore, no jet fans.
- fw-fanctrl: GitHub - TamtamHero/fw-fanctrl: A simple systemd service to better control Framework Laptop's fan(s)
- ryzen-adj, underclock the CPU: GitHub - FlyGoat/RyzenAdj: Adjust power management settings for Ryzen APUs
I only get some noisy fans when gaming and GPU gets over 90C, but rarely get any annoying fan when working or browsing.
PD: I agree this is bad experience for the regular user.
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I donât share your feelings and wording quite as hard but after six months of ownership, I have made up my mind. Yes, I regret getting the Framework 16 and I wish I had gotten something else to hold me for a few more years while I was waiting for this concept to polish out. I have finally put on the table the option to sell it and see if I can get out of this situation without an outrageous loss and do exactly what I wish I had done - get a cheaper laptop to use for a few years and get a future iteration of this one. In the span of six months I have had: DOA unit with a stripped NVMe screw, bent midplate and keyboard twice, bad QC leading to rattling and buzzing that Support just denied exist, too many crashes / hangs to count on Linux, a display with an unacceptable uniformity and light bleeding for an IPS (fortunately only visible in dark scenes and high brightness), standby issues, and a defective heatsink that allows my PC to only boost to like 37-40 W out of the 45 W minimum promised, and 55 W programmed in BIOS. Also: issues with noisy hinges, issues with the expansion cards sometimes âdyingâ on their own, issues with the fit of the touchpad area modules, a de-centered touchpad within the module itself and a keyboard spacer that needed replacing.
A lot of these are either fixed or mitigated, but some are not.
If I had known this laptop would have brought me half the grief it does, I would have bought an HP Elitebook instead. The only reason why I am only regretful and not mad is that this was a first-generation product, and by being an early adopter, you kinda sign up on the whole thing.
The 16 has taught me two powerful lessons: 1 - never pre-order. 2 - never buy a first-generation product.
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DigiKey appears to now have the ADP-240KB BA in stock to ship immediately: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/delta-electronics/ADP-240KB-BA/23026419
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I mean, itâs grim but not all is lost. Personally Iâm still hoping on newer generation parts being backwards compatible and being able to upgrade away at least the most annoying faults.
Itâs just not ideal, but itâs what you risk with a first generation design
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If framework had any interest in not losing you as a user of their brand, they would have read this post, and would have contacted you to replace your equipment.
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Itâs not so simple. My unit has not been particularly blessed by QA and tolerances, but from everything Iâm reading online, it seems to be like, aside from the Golden Samples, every unit has something slightly off about it.
Iâll tell you what. Including myself, I know 4 people in real life who own or owned a Framework 16 at some point. I saw and tried the units myself. Enough to know that my unit is not among the best, but itâs not the worst I have seen. The worst I have seen came with a DOA mainboard, touchpad input modules that legitimately slid up and down with absolutely no resistance, a misaligned expansion bay shell and a panel lid with the aluminium âcoverâ that was somehow not glued down and it was bulging up / could be bent down with your finger, something that my first unit also did. But it didnât have the bent keyboard, shakey expansion cards and the rattle of my unit. That unit got returned after 3 weeks with no news on an RMA approval, that person ended up returning it and is currently debating between a Tuxedo and a Legion. Another unit I have seen is a more recent one - itâs pretty good but the touchpad module is bent up pretty badly and it looks pretty scary. The owner - my friend - said that he personally doesnât mind and heâs not RMAing it (also because the laptop is a secondary machine that is used really infrequently), but itâs there. To compare, my touchpad area modules look and feel significantly straighter and more refined. Another unit - the luckiest one so far - seems to be a Golden Sample. Looks perfect, feels perfect. But it has very weird USB behaviour under Windows with constant USB resets, still unaddressed. Iâll throw in another I have not personally seen from a person I know online: the first main board died overnight and stopped posting, and it got replaced with a new main board with the deflection modules attached that has thermal issues from the get go and cannot boost past 40-41 W right off the bat, on Month 1 - Something that even my unit has, but 6 months down the line. The other two units are currently untested.
Replacing my machine for the second time would probably cost Framework a lot of money and achieve nothing. It would just be a reroll of my chances at a quality device, with a decent probability of ending up with a downgrade instead. I have seen enough units to back my claims that the unit to unit variance / tolerances are scary high. Counting my initial unit, thatâs 5 units. 5 may be a low sample size, but if 4 out of 5 of these either were RMAd or would have been eligible for an RMA, thatâs surely not encouraging numbers IMO.
Thatâs just what a first generation design is about. I took the deliberate risk and I took a gamble, one I ended up losing. To keep me interested Framework doesnât have to make me re-roll the RNG a third time, but I want to see future generations of this product that are considerably better and more consistent in tolerances than what Iâve seen so far. Basically, release something in N years that - by the time I will decide to upgrade my laptop - will convince me that things are different now and that I should give this product line another shot rather than migrating to a safer, more mass-produced laptop from a huge company. Framework says exciting things are planned for next year - and I hope one of them will be a Framework 16 2.0 that addresses at least some of my complaints. It doesnât have to be perfect. It doesnât have to be a generation-to-generation 100% fix. But Iâd love that to be there some 4 years from now!
(Edit) Yes, to be clear, I am still open to the possibility of buying future Framework devices and I will not make any conclusive decisions on claims on a pre-order unit of the first iteration of a new design. The fact that the 13 is faring much better is reassuring enough - hopefully we will see a similar slow, iterative improvement on the 16 year after year after year.
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This is a good effort, but none of these work. You want the Delta 240W charger from Digikey - that one appears to be compatible.
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Ok I gotta say, this thread title cracks me up every time I see it pop back up in the âunreadâ queue. And I donât even curse.
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