I definitely agree on the being constructive part! Problem is, the constructive behavior is to contact support and work through the issues with them, but what if the support experience then disappoints? I disagree that one should then silently accept their fate and move on - the “changing course” part. Sure, take care of yourself so that you can still do what you need to do with a different laptop or whatever, but also make your experience known. Otherwise how people after you will even know what they are getting into? How one part of the company will know what the other is doing?
Wish you, and everyone really, a good day as well!
Fair points. One should speak up if the experience is not ideal. I had to do so via social media for an issue with a laptop from a different manufacturer, after previously having been stonewalled. In general politely but firmly insisting that an issue be escalated has worked well for me. I have been fortunate in that I have had very good experiences with Framework Support on the various occasions that I have had to engage them, but I do see where others have not, such as having laptops at service centers for months. That’s not a good outcome for anyone.
To recap - yes, people should make their issues known. Eventually it might get to the point of being healthier to note the issues, cut losses, and move forward.
Nice! And I’ve also been very fortunate to have my FW16 be very good to me, and everything I hoped Framework would deliver, without problems.
So much so that I’m so pumped to recommend Framework to every friend, family member, my employer, etc. Then I read detailed, factual documentations of some of the support experiences on here, and suddenly I feel like I shouldn’t recommend it to people cause it would be quite awkward if they trust me and then get an unlucky unit or place in a ticket queue.
And if I explain to them the reality that we see, that maybe there’s a 0.01% chance you’ll have to battle the support or just return the lemon if you get one, suddenly it doesn’t really sound like the nicest product to get, especially for the money it commands.
I am not sure that I would recommend it to someone who was not comfortable tinkering with things. I did get one for my wife, but then I got the “I don’t want to marry no okie from Muskogee, I want to marry a pilot…” oh, wait, wrong context…she was more comfortable on a mac. So, I wound up with a backup 13" to go with mine. Convenient for tinkering - see above.
The company is having growing pains. My machines have been solid enough and I am comfortable enough hacking on them that I personally would be comfortable using one as my primary work machine, although none of them is. Each individual has to decide if they are comfortable with that. Like you, if I recommend them, I am clear about what an individual might expect. I’ve run into issues with machines from all sorts of manufacturers, so its not that. But something like Applecare or on-site support isn’t an option, and people need to make sure they are ok with that.
It has a good cooling system, the problem is that it does not allow the fan cords to be operated freely and the one that comes by default is very aggressive.
The fans lower their noise if you limit the processor to 99 percent within the power options or put the economy mode on. The problem is that all gaming equipment makes a lot of noise without these options, which makes it the same as a framework.
Although with a customized fan curve it would be easily solvable.
As for the support, it is good support, which responds to the user but the procedures are tedious.
On the other hand, I don’t like the title of the post although I recognize that the framework does not seem to be very communicative regarding community requests. It also limits the fps to 60 fps. I still don’t understand how these problems are common to gaming teams and the framework team doesn’t appear to give these advice.
As for the charger, playing 2k and 60 fps you shouldn’t have a problem but with everything at maximum it is normal to have problems because with my Asus and xmg I got the same problems with battery charging when playing at maximum.
Thank you all for your comments. Perhaps for many people all my problems with the laptop are just trifles, but when you pay that kind of money for a laptop, you want quality and support standards in terms of bios and driver updates, not searching for working drivers and how to install them and from what angle. And the poor bios settings are annoying, as for a laptop for such a price. If you buy a good device, you want adequate quality.
Nearly always it’s down to money. If it’s hard work won then it’s hard when you don’t get what you want. If the money is easy come then the problems easy go.
Then there are those that actually like laptops, especially this one, and get upset when it doesn’t do what was expected, irrespective of money.
And of course ~ support ~ well sadly that’s down to money unless you are fairly adept at sorting your own problems, after all consumers create their own choas.
First of all, I don’t think calling something shit is “correct.” The engineering work done by the framework team is very good.
Secondly, I have to agree with you on some things and add:
-It is true that the drivers/bios issue is not up to what is expected in a device of this price.
-Although the support is good, it cannot be denied that it is tedious and there are some indefensible cases such as a computer being in firm for a month.
-The quality of the equipment is far from premium. The magnesium base scratches easily, and that is not the fault of the “innovation” as it does not happen in other older and less expensive equipment.
-The community’s requests are not listened to, even many of the errors highlighted by streamers or youtubers on networks have not been corrected yet.
As you can see, there are many things that could be improved but I don’t think calling it shit is the right thing to do since there is a very important engineering work and that has to be respected.
I know, however, if the framework team has hardly paid attention to the criticism in the reviews, it will not do so with the users either.
They did an incredible job with framework 13 but I have the feeling that with framework 16 they are outdone and it raises a lot of doubts in my mind if we will see software and especially new hardware for framework 16.
What’s more, I think it’s more likely that we won’t see any more framework 16 updates, but they didn’t commit to anything either.
This part I disagree with. I mean, it’s obviously true that a bunch of issues haven’t yet been addressed. But I would be willing to bet my own money that Framework is listening to them, just not responding in public as a pragmatic decision.
I’ll eat my hat if Framework 16 updates aren’t in the pipeline. Just… hardware’s a long pipeline.
I think what they’re doing is, first, listening, and second, being disciplined with a communication strategy. If nrp comes in here all the time talking about how they’re planning to do this or that, every time something takes longer than planned is a “slip”. Every thing he doesn’t respond to is inexcusable non-response – what is he hiding?! Every change in plans was a lie. If people are impatient with lacking responses, they’ll be doubly so when they’re waiting on something in particular. Just think of how crazy people were getting when Batch 1 deliveries were slow to get rolling.
If Framework is quiet, they can judge what’s fixable, work on things as they can afford to, avoid committing to dates that will probably slip, and mostly deliver good news to the community when they do deliver news. All of the work is hard and time-consuming, and some of it realistically can’t happen without degrees of redesign, or changing parts suppliers, or manufacturing processes, so on, all while maintaining compatibility with existing designs. They may not want to or, practically, be able to staff up in a sustainable way… they’ve got to stay solvent, before they do anything else. A lot of the work will be done by partner companies outside Framework’s direct control.
Social media is a pot, and stirring it makes it angry. That’s why they can’t respond in a very open way, as nice as that would be for the minority who would appreciate it without misinterpreting it.
I don’t think they will listen to the community much if there are complaints about fan noise in both framework 13 and 16 for not being able to control things like the fans and they haven’t resolved it yet.
By the way, today another complaint about the fan noise…
My point is more, “listening” is not the same as “changing things immediately”. It’s one thing to list out the problems with the Framework 16, but it’s another to be very confident that they point to an incorrect approach to gradually resolving those problems. Don’t forget, Batch 20 was still shipping out… four months ago? They’re up to supporting, what, six, seven different motherboards on the Framework 13? It’s not like they’re not busy.
And they are publicly acknowledging these issues and talking about them, too. See, for example, Framework’s software and firmware have been a mess, but it’s working on them - Ars Technica, from earlier this year. It does say something about relying on Compal to staff up to round robin firmware updates in the first half of this year. We’ll know whether they can find a groove, what, another year from now?
These things take time. Part of what I like about this thread is, people who don’t want to sign up for an early tinkerer’s computer with issues should probably steer clear of the Framework 16 for another generation or two.
It’s completely anecdotal, but my fans on my 11th gen FW13 are also fine – not saying it’s not a problem, but it’s hard to say what the problem is, or how Framework “should” respond. It depends… and I’m sure it’ll only improve over time, barring the occasional bug or regression. For the Framework 16’s the fan noise – the laptop pushes a ton of air, and I think that’s the idea. We’ll have to wait for hardware updates to deal with the high-pitched whining noise, and there’s not a lot to talk about until then.
Aren’t there two fans vibeing away, probably at dif speeds so they don’t resonate with each other and blow the lid off.
And if not resonant then there’s the extra modulated frequency, audible between 20 and 20K
I wonder what frequencies they really do produce and some people will resonate with some fans and it may be inclined to blow their ears drums or brains out.
Luckily unlike laptops people are flexible and tolerant of sh!£, laptops could never deal with the real mess that humans make so they have to be replaced here and there.
Don’t pick on the laptop it’s the human race individually and en mass that are shit. Please stop this ‘I hate some machine’ thing. I hear more whining from the users than the machines
