Framework 16 is shit

I don’t share your feelings and wording quite as hard but after six months of ownership, I have made up my mind. Yes, I regret getting the Framework 16 and I wish I had gotten something else to hold me for a few more years while I was waiting for this concept to polish out. I have finally put on the table the option to sell it and see if I can get out of this situation without an outrageous loss and do exactly what I wish I had done - get a cheaper laptop to use for a few years and get a future iteration of this one. In the span of six months I have had: DOA unit with a stripped NVMe screw, bent midplate and keyboard twice, bad QC leading to rattling and buzzing that Support just denied exist, too many crashes / hangs to count on Linux, a display with an unacceptable uniformity and light bleeding for an IPS (fortunately only visible in dark scenes and high brightness), standby issues, and a defective heatsink that allows my PC to only boost to like 37-40 W out of the 45 W minimum promised, and 55 W programmed in BIOS. Also: issues with noisy hinges, issues with the expansion cards sometimes “dying” on their own, issues with the fit of the touchpad area modules, a de-centered touchpad within the module itself and a keyboard spacer that needed replacing.

A lot of these are either fixed or mitigated, but some are not.

If I had known this laptop would have brought me half the grief it does, I would have bought an HP Elitebook instead. The only reason why I am only regretful and not mad is that this was a first-generation product, and by being an early adopter, you kinda sign up on the whole thing.

The 16 has taught me two powerful lessons: 1 - never pre-order. 2 - never buy a first-generation product.

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Hi I couldn’t ‘like’ your post as it’s depressing and I only hope you recover from your choice and find strength for the unknown.

:om:

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DigiKey appears to now have the ADP-240KB BA in stock to ship immediately: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/delta-electronics/ADP-240KB-BA/23026419

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I mean, it’s grim but not all is lost. Personally I’m still hoping on newer generation parts being backwards compatible and being able to upgrade away at least the most annoying faults.

It’s just not ideal, but it’s what you risk with a first generation design

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If framework had any interest in not losing you as a user of their brand, they would have read this post, and would have contacted you to replace your equipment.

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It’s not so simple. My unit has not been particularly blessed by QA and tolerances, but from everything I’m reading online, it seems to be like, aside from the Golden Samples, every unit has something slightly off about it.

I’ll tell you what. Including myself, I know 4 people in real life who own or owned a Framework 16 at some point. I saw and tried the units myself. Enough to know that my unit is not among the best, but it’s not the worst I have seen. The worst I have seen came with a DOA mainboard, touchpad input modules that legitimately slid up and down with absolutely no resistance, a misaligned expansion bay shell and a panel lid with the aluminium “cover” that was somehow not glued down and it was bulging up / could be bent down with your finger, something that my first unit also did. But it didn’t have the bent keyboard, shakey expansion cards and the rattle of my unit. That unit got returned after 3 weeks with no news on an RMA approval, that person ended up returning it and is currently debating between a Tuxedo and a Legion. Another unit I have seen is a more recent one - it’s pretty good but the touchpad module is bent up pretty badly and it looks pretty scary. The owner - my friend - said that he personally doesn’t mind and he’s not RMAing it (also because the laptop is a secondary machine that is used really infrequently), but it’s there. To compare, my touchpad area modules look and feel significantly straighter and more refined. Another unit - the luckiest one so far - seems to be a Golden Sample. Looks perfect, feels perfect. But it has very weird USB behaviour under Windows with constant USB resets, still unaddressed. I’ll throw in another I have not personally seen from a person I know online: the first main board died overnight and stopped posting, and it got replaced with a new main board with the deflection modules attached that has thermal issues from the get go and cannot boost past 40-41 W right off the bat, on Month 1 - Something that even my unit has, but 6 months down the line. The other two units are currently untested.

Replacing my machine for the second time would probably cost Framework a lot of money and achieve nothing. It would just be a reroll of my chances at a quality device, with a decent probability of ending up with a downgrade instead. I have seen enough units to back my claims that the unit to unit variance / tolerances are scary high. Counting my initial unit, that’s 5 units. 5 may be a low sample size, but if 4 out of 5 of these either were RMAd or would have been eligible for an RMA, that’s surely not encouraging numbers IMO.

That’s just what a first generation design is about. I took the deliberate risk and I took a gamble, one I ended up losing. To keep me interested Framework doesn’t have to make me re-roll the RNG a third time, but I want to see future generations of this product that are considerably better and more consistent in tolerances than what I’ve seen so far. Basically, release something in N years that - by the time I will decide to upgrade my laptop - will convince me that things are different now and that I should give this product line another shot rather than migrating to a safer, more mass-produced laptop from a huge company. Framework says exciting things are planned for next year - and I hope one of them will be a Framework 16 2.0 that addresses at least some of my complaints. It doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be a generation-to-generation 100% fix. But I’d love that to be there some 4 years from now!

(Edit) Yes, to be clear, I am still open to the possibility of buying future Framework devices and I will not make any conclusive decisions on claims on a pre-order unit of the first iteration of a new design. The fact that the 13 is faring much better is reassuring enough - hopefully we will see a similar slow, iterative improvement on the 16 year after year after year.

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This is a good effort, but none of these work. You want the Delta 240W charger from Digikey - that one appears to be compatible.

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Ok I gotta say, this thread title cracks me up every time I see it pop back up in the “unread” queue. And I don’t even curse.

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That’s cause shit comes from from ‘the crack’

Oops! or should that be Poops!

:poop:

maybe the title could be `

16" of Poo`