Framework Laptop 13 Ryzen 7040 BIOS 3.07 Release - Held

[Avendor]

Smooth update on EndeavourOS

[Rei]

I’m also debating if I should update…
funny story, I also have an update “Upgrade UEFI dbx from 421 to 20241101”, anyone has it?

[Kyle_Farnung]

Switching the GPU BIOS setting from “Auto” to “Gaming” resolved the black screen issue on newer AMD drivers for me. Hopefully a fix will come around and I can switch it back, but the memory impact is minimal and I don’t need to worry about Windows Update pushing me back to a broken state.

[Andrew_Kahn]

Updated from previous 3.06 BETA. No black screen issue.
7840u 64GB of RAM, Windows 11 24H2, Framework 13.

Works great.

[Charlie_6]

Not possible to rollback should be classified as “known issues”

[Charlie_6]

I think that might caused by interactions between hysteresis loop, charge limit and battery extender.

The laptop prioritize battery usage over AC power. If you sent the limit manually lower than current charge %, you’ll get 0 power from the USBC input regardless of current power usage. This is likely to be a hardware issue or it’s very difficult if not impossible to fix via EC firmware updates. If you use the Framework 60W charger, you can still get battery discharge under instantaneous 53W CPU load among other components load. If you set the charge % limit lower and with charger plugged in, you can still get 53W CPU load( roughly 66W~70W total system power usage) dispite 0W coming from the charger. Deliberately doing so is very hard on the battery I’m surprised that the BMS didn’t cut power when I did this for science and the battery is only rated for 1C

Therefore it can be difficult or buggy to implement 5% hysteresis loop. Since if you set 80% limit, the EC set to 75% before charging, you’ll get to discharge immediately even with 100W charger. One possible way is to cap the limit internally to 80% when the current charge is 80%, 79% if the current charge is 79% and so on, until it reaches 75% then the internal limit is raised back to 80%

[Mad_Alchemist]

FW13 7640U running Artix, everything’s running fine post-update (was on 3.06 BETA).

[dimitris]

@Rei

I also have an update “Upgrade UEFI dbx from 421 to 20241101”, anyone has it?

Did that yesterday from version 20230501 to 20241101, no issues.

[Grandpa_engineer]

well it didnt go full black as soon as i installed the new driver but it still wont work

[Quin_Chou]

@Brian_Gregory

@Brian_Gregory

I appear to have lost the ability to set my own lower battery charge limit.

Okay, I re-entered every setting in the BIOS related to battery charging and battery extender and changed my battery charge limit several times, rebooting in between, but put it back to 70%, and things are now behaving differently, but oddly. It seems to have stopped charging the battery, but also it seems to have stopped accepting any AC power, like maybe it’s trying to bring the battery back down to 70%? But that’s not what used to happen, it used to just stop charging but continue to work off the AC power.

Added later: As the battery came down nearer to 70% the laptop started drawing power from AC, so maybe it’s working more or less acceptably right now, but only after a lot of fiddling about with BIOS settings and rebooting in between.

If this is activated while the battery state of charge is above the limit, the battery will discharge without drawing power from the adapter until the upper limit is reached.

[Quin_Chou]

@James3

Please can you also update the description to explain how to rollback to a previous bios in case this one causes problems for some people?
Or clearly state that rollback is not possible.

We are sorry for not being clear. We will show rollback information detail in the future.

This version only cannot rollback to previous version due to the AMD kernel update.

[fw13amd]

Updated without issue

AMD 7840U with the AMD Wifi, used with an Anker 8-in-1 USB-C dongle for mouse/keyboard transceivers + HDMI out to external monitor and USB-C in for charge.

Everything still working fine.

Haven’t played around with battery charge limits. My BIOS is configured with a limit at 80% and I was below that when starting the update. I have since then done a clean boot and am now back to 79% and charging.

P.S. obligatory “Safari feels snappier”

[Kan-Ru_Chen]

Fedora 41, updated from 3.06 beta and everything looks good so far.

[SCdF]

No issues here, endeavouros

[Bernd_Steinzimmer]

@Charlie_6

The laptop prioritize battery usage over AC power. If you sent the limit manually lower than current charge %, you’ll get 0 power from the USBC input regardless of current power usage. This is likely to be a hardware issue or it’s very difficult if not impossible to fix via EC firmware updates.

There is no fix needed, since this is the expected behavior. Your battery may swallow up, when it is charged fully and not in use. That’s why this was implemented in the first place. So don’t worry, it’s working as expected.

[JanW]

I’m not sure I understand the (expected and actual) behavior of the AC power. Battery charging and use of AC power by the machine to cover current power use are two different things in my mind. Does this mean that for a plugged-in FW13 AMD with this new update the battery will constantly cycle between the set battery charge limit and 5% below that limit?

Hopefully I misunderstood, because that seems far from ideal. If the machine is plugged in, the battery should just sit unused (not charging, not discharging), the power needed to run the machine coming from AC power, unless power draw exceeds the capacity of the charger of course.

[Charlie_6]

@JanW

Hopefully I misunderstood, because that seems far from ideal. If the machine is plugged in, the battery should just sit unused (not charging, not discharging), the power needed to run the machine coming from AC power, unless power draw exceeds the capacity of the charger of course.

The laptop doesn’t seem to fully support bypass charging, while gaming (or doing demanding tasks) the battery cycles between charging and discharging and the battery level fluctuates ±1%, even when the power draw is only 48W

61Wh battery lifetime extender functionality and warranty

I’m going to take a stab at it and guess that’s not the full story. There’s likely(?) an additional compounding issue with the FL13 having a battery charge / discharge flip-flopping behaviour when the laptop (processor, more specifically) is under repeated high load. e.g. [TRACKING] Battery flipping between charging and discharging / Draws from battery even on AC That’s been a requested feature since 2021…and has been ignored we have yet to see anything reagarding it since then.

I’m actually curious about the bus voltage or the mainboard voltage of the laptop, is it 19V~20V or somewhere else?

Why is "19.5V" used as a common laptop charger voltage? - Page 1

Since the bus voltage is related to circuitry USBC->bus->battery->bus->USB&vrms&5V&3.3V… or just USBC ->battery ->vrms

BTW, where are northbridge, southbridge and what are the voltages of these components?

[JanW]

Thanks for the pointer @Charlie_6 ! I can understand that this is the case if the power draw exceeds or comes close to the charger capacity, which seems to be hinted at elsewhere in the forum (for an older Inter model of the FW13):

@A_Fan

The battery charge capacity drops when the full system load is greater than the wattage the USB-PD can supply.

But that’s not the way I understand the comment by @Brian_Gregory above, which seems to indicate that the laptop runs solely on battery, without any AC power accepted, until the battery is drained to the currently set charge level. So my question is, does powering the laptop from AC work for light loads at a charge level between the charge limit and the -5% hysteresis value?

[Charlie_6]

@JanW

AC work for light loads at a charge level between the charge limit and the -5% hysteresis value?

That’s depends, seems that there’s a threshold when the battery starts to discharge. If you use a 60W charger, a 48W constant gaming load is enough to discharge the battery then the battery charges back, doing light load such as document editing is fine. If you use a 30W charger, even idling on desktop with <5W load, discharges the battery at about 0.08W to 0.6W, until the battery level is 1% lower than charge limit %(set manually with battery extender off), then the power from USB will be fully used (27W~30W) to charge the 1% back

[JanW]

@Charlie_6

Since if you set 80% limit, the EC set to 75% before charging, you’ll get to discharge immediately even with 100W charger.

I guess my question is: Have you actually seen this behavior with the 3.07 Beta BIOS release, or is this based on your observations on under other releases? With “this behavior”, I mean specifically what has been observed when the battery charge level is above the charge limit:

@Brian_Gregory

It seems to have stopped charging the battery, but also it seems to have stopped accepting any AC power, like maybe it’s trying to bring the battery back down to 70%? But that’s not what used to happen, it used to just stop charging but continue to work off the AC power.

Does the FW13 AMD with BIOS 3.07 run only on battery, without using any AC power, even under low load and using a sufficiently powerful charger, when battery level is between the charge limit -5% and the charge limit (between 75% and 80% in your example)?