Don’t you need to press some button to make them work?
I wanted to get into hardware keys and was wondering what the nicest way possible with the FL16 is.
I might open a thread for this
I think your right. I’d almost need a recessed usb-C port for that then (which complicates things slightly)
Hi, cool to see arch-based distros seem to run fine !
As for the screen, isn’t it a 16:10 one ? (If I’m not mistaken the 3:4 screen is on the FW13 model)
My arch install works fine, yeah. Yes it’s 16:10.
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That may be why i didn’t notice any difference. I had thought I read it was 3:4 lol. Thanks
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In case you didn’t know about the two community driven projects for just that:
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Hey friends,
I received my DIY batch 1 FW16 (7940hs/7700s) last week and wanted to take the time to share my thoughts.
TL;DR - Pretty damn good as a laptop, not as a desktop replacement.
I’ve been generally happy and impressed with the machine so far. I really enjoyed the unboxing experience. As a long time fan of building desktops, this provided me with a similar level of excitement and nerdy enthusiasm. It was a joy to put together and the instructions were clear and concise. I provided my own RAM (64GB 5600) and SSDs (2tb 2230, 4tb 2280, 1tb expansion card). I did run into the no-display issue when first booting, but after fiddling with it (removing a ram stick, resetting some connectors) I was able to boot it up, install windows, and get everything set up with ease.
My experience using the FW16 as a laptop (on battery, on my lap, on the go) has been pretty impressive. The battery life seems good enough (at least for a guy who’s used to gaming laptops and ThinkPad W/P series), I never hear the fans during general use, and the keyboard and trackpad are serviceable. The screen is a pretty nice, bright IPS, and the speakers aren’t anywhere near as rough as I was expecting. They actually sound pretty nice, just don’t get very loud, which is an important distinction between speakers that sound objectively bad like the FW13.
Where things began to go off the rails for me was when I started using it docked at my desk for more demanding tasks. Before I get into the specifics, I should say that I’m probably an outlier with the way I like to use my computer. I’m tethered to my desk, with a CalDigit TS4, LG C2 42" OLED (+another monitor and a projector that’s not always on), audio interface, monitors, etc etc 75% of the time. I prefer to have one machine that can do it all vs a desktop and laptop for separate use cases. For that reason, I’ve always preferred big bruiser laptops that are more powerful and less portable. Though the FW16 kind of blurs the line between powerful workstation and thin and light portable, I don’t think anyone would put it in the desktop replacement class.
With all of that out of the way, the first issue I encountered, which is my own damn fault, is that there doesn’t appear to be any way to drive my 4k/120hz monitor at or near its full potential. I knew the HDMI expansion cards were limited to 2.0b, but in my ignorance, I thought there was definitely a way to utilize USB 4 or DisplayPort Alt from the GPU module to achieve this. I’ve tried a few different adapters at this point, and it appears that I’m out of luck. Not Framework’s fault, but a bummer.
EDIT: It doesn’t look quite right, but the following adapter has been able to provide 4k/120/10-bit!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BY3VS8LF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The second issue I’ve encountered has been hard throttling when attempting to game. There’s a separate thread about it with all of the gory details, but essentially it starts out pretty well, maintaining 120w to the CPU/GPU and handling 1440p admirably. Within a few minutes, however, it throttles down to between 50-75w to the CPU/GPU and grinds everything to a halt. This is while also depleting the battery pretty rapidly, in spite of being plugged in. The last concern here is that the bottom of the laptop gets absolutely white hot to the touch. As we’ve established, I’ve had gaming laptops and ThinkPad P series machines over the years, so I’m no stranger to laptops getting hot to the touch. This is new tier of surface heat. In general, I’d say it’s a very toasty boi, even on battery power, which I don’t really mind. The fans while gaming or editing video are quite prominent, as others have mentioned.
For short bursts, I have actually been impressed with the performance in high CPU/GPU workloads, but it doesn’t seem like the cooling system was designed to do that for very long. I have a suspicion that 240w power adapters might not be a magic bullet either, because right now it feels like they are threading the needle between not quite handling the heat generated from 180w while simultaneously not being able to maintain full load without borrowing from the battery. I’m very far from an electrical engineer, but I’d imagine more wattage would help the second problem and exacerbate the first.
As many others have pointed out, the trackpad spacers also just feel like a miss. It’s not even that they don’t align precisely, it’s the fact that they move when you press them (as do the corners of the trackpad). This makes carrying this laptop a little bit odd. If you carry it open, by the corner of the top deck, the trackpad spacers feel squishy (the seem to also occasionally pulls the hair on my arm while typing haha). the most natural way to carry it closed it by the ledge of the expansion module, but I’m not sure if that’s safe either with the connector/fastener setup?
I posted something to this effect on the subreddit after the specific hardware was announced but, I think a lot of us were really hoping that they were going to make a high-powered desktop replacement computer and that we could ditch our desktops/gaming laptops. That’s not what they’ve made here and that’s okay. Instead, it’s kind of a squishy XPS that you can repair and hopefully upgrade one day.
I still really like the computer, and I think if I was buying it to compliment a powerful desktop or if I didn’t want to game or edit video on it, it would be a solid buy. I’m going to be very curious to see how the platform matures, especially in terms of power delivery, heat dissipation, and beefier components moving forward.
I’m working with support on some of the issues I’ve encountered and am going to continue to try and figure some of the stuff out before making the call on whether to return it or not. To me, the big X factor for this platform/machine is still Oculink. Every eGPU setup I’ve tried in the past has been an exercise in frustration, but if an Oculink solution can alleviate some of the shortcomings of TB (bandwidth, stability, ease of use), it could potentially still make this the dream desktop replacement some of us were hoping for after all.
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Dissipation problems?
Battery running out while playing even when plugged into the mains?
Battery we knew would be an issue as they outright said that gaming could require more than the 180 can give, but the thermals dont sound great
They seem like two serious problems to me. And I don’t think this can be easily resolved.
Battery one doesnt seem like a big problem on a laptop made to be able to draw 240 when its only plugged into 180, i just dont get why they decided to only make a 180, apparently about half the user base wants gpu, so half the user base is gonna have to wait for a 240 to come out when there is no indication that is happening anytime soon?
But are there problems in heat management? in dissipation?
Playing with the network cable connected, can you run out of power?
There are no problems with heat on mine. I think Boe’s unit has a hardware fault. He is running into an issue with the power passthrough from the USB-C modules possibly causing the GPU throttle and heating up the module at the same time.
My suspicion is some kind of hardware fault with the modules he has or maybe a firmware bug. His last post on his other thread noted the throttle is gone when plugged directly into the board.
An update from my end, I have been bypassing the expansion card and plugging the power directly into the board. The hard throttling hasn’t gone away, but does seem less frequent. The battery drains by about 30% per hour while under load. Not ideal for long gaming/video editing sessions. The bottom of the laptop also remains white hot to the touch.
It’s definitely possible that I have a hardware defect of some sort, though (according to hwmonitor) the CPU/GPU temps aren’t too outlandish - 90ish C and 70ish C respectively.
Hm. I’ll try to undervolt my CPU and GPU as well as lower the power targets if mine will behave similarly. Maybe that’ll kill 10-20% of the performance, but I still have my desktop anyways if I really need the performance.
Contact frame support. Let’s see if it is a hardware error or a general error.
Wrong person, I’m from Batch 5 and still waiting ^^
But yeah, they should contact support if this issue persists.
I guess they developed a 180w power brick first because it would suffice for most people most of the time, while still being compact and affordable.
From Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive - 180W Power Adapter:
We needed to solve for the tricky task of creating an adapter small and portable enough to be a great fit for the Framework Laptop 16 in an integrated graphics configuration while also outputting enough power to handle the Graphics Module with a discrete GPU. 180W covers the majority of use cases while still being extremely compact.
For those who would be running a workload that sustains over 180w draw for long periods, there will always be the option of third-party power adaptors.
If that doesn’t sound like a good tradeoff to you, the Framework Laptop 16 supports 240W USB PD 3.1 power adapters too, so you can configure your DIY Edition without a power adapter and bring your own 240W one instead.
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I can’t tell by the way you’ve worded your post, but just wanted to make sure you are aware that there are no 240W usb-c power adapters on the market yet.
They didn’t release a 180W first because they chose it over a 240W, they developed it first because they were the first to make one.
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I had a feeling that was the case, but wasn’t sure. I assume it’s only a matter of time until they arrive though.
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