I do not know whether this had been asked before (at least my searches didn’t come up with any) or whether this has already been released. A conversation with my family has brought to my attention that I would like to know how many units have Framework sold so far. I do not need a very accurate number, and I don’t care if the pre-orders are included. I want a general idea of how many units Framework has sold so far. If that is not yet released, then which quarter will I be expected to see this information?
This has never been released and since Framework is not a publicly-traded company yet, it probably will never be released officially.
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I read that sentence…and interpreted that a couple of ways:
- Are you interested in the numbers because you want to become a Framework customer? Or,
- Are you interested in the numbers because you’re thinking of starting a laptop business in the open / sustainability side of things…and want to know how big the current pie is?
i.e. It’s not clear in the post what the driver is for the interest in the sale figures, nor what the context was of that conversation.
Framework Pitch Deck by @framework | Pitch - page 10 shows what Framework does in each phase of first N customers. So, if you watch what Framework does, you can assume how many customers they have currently.
A nrp’s blog mentioned on Business reviews about Framework - #15 by junaruga is also useful to know the mindset.
I read it as they were trying to talk him out of buying one because they’re an unknown company with an unproven track record and they think or are trying to convince him that framework isn’t viable as a company/concept.
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Can’t argue with that… That’s the argument against all startups…by definition doesn’t have any track record…proven or otherwise.
You don’t call releasing a new generational mainboard and improving the lid design as evidence of a track record? Sure Framework is still relatively young, but a track record, however small, is already there.
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I don’t.
Update, let me elaborate:
11th gen = early adopters, testing ground, to learn from, public preview…
12th gen = Actual GA, V1.
If placed on a graph, point 1 and point 2, only give you a vector, a direction… it doesn’t give you a ‘track’. If you look from the perspective of point 2, you see where point 1 is… If you then move your perspective from point 2 to point 1…you can’t see where point 1 came from. These two points, alone, doesn’t give you a ‘track’…because it’s a non-repeatable trajectory. At the very least, 3 points are required to see a repeated pattern.
It’s almost like this in simple form:
Given numbers 2 and 6 in this order, what’s the next number in the sequence?
Having a product release (12th gen), currently less than 2 weeks since shipping…we don’t currently have a picture of what 12th gen (actual v1) is like…can’t say it’s either success, nor failure. Track records are not formed from participation prizes, putting out a product. It has to come under feedback, scrutiny, put through its paces.
Track records are forged…not from merely being in existence.
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Actually you could consider point 1 to be the product announcement / promises.
Many companies have announced repairable, modular products in the past (not strictly speaking of laptops), but most, if not all have failed.
Point 2 would be 11th gen and what was delivered, based on what was promised in Point 1.
Point 3 would be 12th gen and in my mind you can already tell, based on the promise, that is a success. You bought an 11th gen model and can now buy a 12th gen board and put it in the old case.
In addition to that they fixed the CMOS battery bug (information taken somewhere from the forum) and USBA power drain (information taken from the Fedora AMA) …
Would we even be discussing here if there’s no product?
i.e. A purchasable product is the bare minimum.
Similarly, would you even look at the 12th gen if nothing is fixed? Having things fixed is the bare minimum between 11th and 12th gen. It’s a “step” between the two, not a track.
A complete product cycle is required as one holistic period. A comparison of that cycle / period 's aspect, to another cycle’s is the apple-to-apple comparison of a step.
e.g. Compare 11th gen product announcement with 12th gen product announcement
Compare 11th gen shipping / delivery experience with that of the 12th gen.
The context is pretty irrelevant. I happily own a batch 3 Framework 11th gen, and the purpose of this is simply because I am curious and perhaps some people are as well. It was a crappy choice of intro but that’s how I came to wonder about this.
After all a general number of sales can indicate the public interest to some degree and I for one would love to see the company grow.
More on the latest couple of replies, although releasing 12th can be consider a “track record” it’s really just one thing and upgradability can probably only be established over a period of time that probably exceeds the normal life expectancy of a framework if it was not designed to be modular or repairable in any way. Which in our case no Framework laptop has lived long enough yet. I am not saying Framework is not reliable or anything, it’s just that these things take time and a single Intel generational change is really not that significant for the whole picture.
@Peter_Schofield I am a she 
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The context steers the degree of sales stat details you require / like to see. …which links back to relevance to the driver. Otherwise, it’s just numbers being thrown at you.
For example, just one single sale figure for 11th gen? Or by batch, by quarter, or slice it by batch in combination with i5 vs i7? …etc.
It’s relevant to you (not to me).
True, still, as i said, there are other companies, that failed to deliver.
Look at all of the crowdfunding companies, that didnt ship anything, but took their backers money…
Therefore i would take the inital promises made as a baseline to compare the 11th gen to.
So what would be a cycle then, if not 11th gen vs 12th gen?
You [may] want to know how long BIOS updates would be available / supported for. When EOL of a product is… How / when will EOL announcement be made… What’s the future for handling / recycling EOL products (is it on Framework’s sustainability roadmap?)…etc. A ‘cycle’ is not just about putting a product on the market.
Take mature product cycles from Lenovo, Dell, Apple, Cisco…etc…for example.
e.g. (from a sales cycle perspective)
This, remotely, goes back to an earlier question in another thread about a week or two ago…“Why there’s no buyer’s guide to Framework Laptop”…because a lack of repeatable data at the moment.
Take the iPhone 6S for example, released in Sep 2015. If I could go back in time, that’s the best value of any phone of that period. No other smartphone from 2015 (that I know of) is still being officially supported. It’s still getting the latest iOS updates as of JuneJuly 2022. (I’m in the Android camp)
Extremely rough guess: Around 12k users, base on forum profile count (Assuming each customer has a forum profile provisioned at the time of order placement, and each person purchased one unit): Users - Framework Community
For example: @Runkai_Zhang has a Joined date of Aug 18, '21…I guess that was joined / created because of order placement, which aligns with “batch 3” timeline.
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