@lbkNhubert thats fair, I was more referring to the AG portion of the post and criticism thereof of that. Although tbh, commenting on tone of the post in either direction would be a violation of community guidelines here. At least it was the last time I read them.
Also didn’t really read the Reddit post because Reddit is a cesspool
I have every right to publicly share an experience that contradict’s Framework’s marketing.
If you identify inaccuracies or misrepresentation in my posts, I will gladly correct them and take ownership.
That’s reasonable as well. Thanks for the response, and have a good one.
I don’t recall that I commented about your right or lack thereof to share your experience. I did, however, take issue with assertions that do not appear to be backed up and to certain other elements in the post.
I hope that you achieve resolution to your issue, whatever path it takes.
You may or may not believe it, but to reiterate what I said in a prior post, I wish you peace, and to be well.
Seriously, let’s end any discussion about tone or hyperbole. It really is in violation of community guidelines and is quite unproductive. OP, you aren’t likely to get any kind of desirable resolution to your request here. My linked post makes that quite clear. Damage more extensive(more keycaps) was already deemed excessive and Framework support gave you an official answer in email. If you want to continue to press your case, by all means do so. I’d use the template your state so kindly provides to you and send it to Framework support and then contact your state AG if you feel obligated to do so. Other than that, you made your feelings and experience known, so you’ve accomplished that purpose.
Let’s just call it a night now. It’s just after midnight where I am and I have class in the morning so I bid you all a good night and pleasant/restful sleep.
While I think that perhaps support should have processed the issue differently, I don’t think the conversation shows the agent was acting with ill-intent. Like trying to waste your time, or truly deciding that it was Customer-Induced Damage only due to your state’s longer implied warranty. Rather, I think it may just be due to the procedure they follow and having to handle a large number of tickets quickly.
Customer reports damage, first step may be to ask for pictures of the whole laptop, bottom side of the part in question and the connector, just as standard procedure. Actually making any assessment only comes after they have that.
And the responses from support, you have to remember that certain parts come from standard responses they have.
You can see that here where they say “We’ve come to the conclusion that there is a need to replace the Keyboard”. That is obvious sooner, from the first picture of the keycap, but procedure likely dictated that it only be said at the end, even if it sounds odd.
Now at this point I think they just got to a stage where they can say that there are no other issues preventing a simple input cover replacement from working. Such as a damaged connector or body damage preventing it from fitting properly. This needs to be done regardless of warranty status because they would still need to be able to advise you on the repair. So everything up to this is not done with the intent to waste your time.
Next step, warranty. Oh, warranty is up. No need to continue to the actual assessment of whether the issue would be covered, which might require moving the ticket over to a different person who is experienced in that aspect.
So the agent tells you the two repair options, keyboard only, or whole input cover. Refers you to repair guides, and tells you that unfortunately your warranty is up. Even if that agent was experienced in assessing Customer-Induced Damage, is there a need or advantage in bringing that up? It serves no purpose, while possibly making the customer upset.
When you brought up that your state has a longer implied warranty, now the agent is at the stage of forwarding it for assessment.
Personally, if it was me, and I knew how I treated my laptop, I would certainly say they got it wrong. A key shouldn’t break with normal use. But on the other hand, I can kind of see how they might believe it to be Customer-Induced. If they’ve had no other issues with keys splitting, then they may feel they know that the keys won’t do that unless subjected to something abnormal.
You say that they assert that it’s Customer-Induced without evidence. But there never is actual hard evidence. No company will be expected to have video proof showing the use that a product has seen. If laws required hard evidence, then there would be massive abuse and honest customers would suffer with hugely increased prices to cover the costs. So assessment based on knowledge of the parts and the history of issues that have been seen is all that can be done. I do think too many companies abuse this, and deny claims they know to be legitimate. But Framework doesn’t strike me as being like that.
There are SOOOO many cases of Framework support going above and beyond despite this usually entailing a financial loss on their end. To sit here and say that they are intentionally wasting your time smacks of you not understanding that the world is much larger than you.
Your standard warranty has run out, but your state has an additional period of time for warranties in law. Now unless the law surrounding CID claims are spelled out, Framework has done nothing wrong, and in fact is in the right here.
Here is why I think this:
Testing and engineering of commercial products are intense and thorough. This testing is not perfect. However, in all of the laptops Framework has sold the number of cases were the key has split in the way yours has are rare or non-existent. (once again, this is my guess)
On the other hand, the world we live in is defined by the laws of physics and more that we have not or cannot currently define. These laws say that actions cannot happen without other actions. Meaning that miraculous key splitting is not a thing. There had to be an appropriate action repetitive or sudden that occurred and resulted in the keycap splitting.
It is not rocket science to say that under normal use such a thing is not possible, especially when a split key is not happening elsewhere on your keyboard or other users. I have had my FW 13 for years now. I’ve typed a lot on it. I don’t even know how the key could split to begin with.
Combine this with your attempts at smearing them here and on other social platforms and your story seems fishy to me.
Furthermore, as a smaller company they need to make sure that their kindness is not being taken advantage of. Returns and warranty cases can sink companies.
NOW, if your key really did just split and you have been using it normally (IE: you are not a keyboard masher or something), this is disappointing for you. I can totally agree with that. But I would just ask you to try to see it from Framework’s position. AND, your keyboard is fixable in not one but two ways.
Is it really justified to try to tear down the only company making such a repair possible?
NOTE: I do not work for Framework, and am not an official employee in any way.
Note - I’m the guy from Review of hardware durability and repair (1.5 years)
My personal experience is that Framework support leaves me with a mild sense of meh. I travel a lot, so it doesn’t make sense sometimes to contact them as I wouldn’t be able to get the part most of the time.
My experience:
I replaced the keyboard. You can compare the initial and final pictures as the paint job got worse, but the real reason for replacement is that 2 years in, the alt key quit working.
1Y keyboard paint job
2Y keyboard paint job
For my keyboard wear and tear, I’m really not sure that was due to usage, I would suspect it’s a bad paint job. I finally had to replace it because the alt key went bad (2 years in - definitely out of warranty). 5 months after replacement, this keyboard is not having any paint stripping / bubbles, so my assessment is likely correct.
The initial and replacement power cables both ended up being frayed. I only contacted support out of warranty for the first one. Should it have been replaced if it’s a known issue even out of warranty? Not really sure, but it is sure irritating to order a second one and also have it be frayed in a few months(not sure the exact timeline, but disappointing). I got a braided usb cable from Walmart instead. Note - I did not contact support for the 2nd one as I’m travelling, but perhaps I should.
I wanted to order a matte screen and it was not shippable. They contacted me and said they would ship it even though they screwed up. Which is totally awesome. Unfortunately, due to travel I still couldn’t get that ordered.
Regarding OP, given the likelihood that I’m in the 99th percentile of laptop abusers, I can say there’s really no way that a key should split like that, so I’m having difficulty understanding how this could possibly be customer induced. It’s also highly unlikely that OP would be purposely breaking a key to file an issue. Customer induced damage definitely seems like an unfortunate way to end this issue, but humans are involved and maybe they were having a bad day when they made the assessment.
It happens.
Anyway, the company is growing and evolving, and the reputation will be solidified in the next few years and hopefully, support can evolve to consistently be awesome.
So many people in this forum and on Reddit seem to have real trouble with this. I support you OP. I spent a month doing backflips for support with absolute non-sequitur tasks.
I hope you get it sorted, or find a laptop from a company with more integrity.
I don’t think it applies in this case.
Wording is : “The item is seriously defective.”
We’ve got similar consumer protections in the UK, and a split key wouldn’t be covered by that. If the mainboard failed and the computer wouldn’t turn on, then that’s seriously defective. The computer still works fine, apart from the missing keycap. Which the OP could superglue back together.
Apple covered my out of warranty MacBook Pro for Radeongate under the equivalent UK law.
The part you quoted was just one of the steps in how I think the procedure would have gone. To explain why I don’t think they said it was customer induced in response to being faced with the state’s longer implied warranty. Rather, they just didn’t get to that assessment yet.
Whether it would actually be covered under the state’s implied warranty is another matter.
The point is that by going from 0-60 (your first response after they told you it was CID was to threaten legal action) you almost guarantee you will get a poor customer service experience.
The assertion FW was “leading you on” seens to be predicated on the notion that they knew from the outset that they would not provide an RMA - but you’ve given no reason to believe this is true. They clearly asked for detailed pictures of the unit to ascertain whether or not the damage was due to manufacturing defects or QA issues.
You assert that FW invented the CID claim to absolve themselves of the warranty implied by Maine state law. However the chain of communication provides no evidence that this is true. They refused RMA due to the unit being out of warranty. They did not identify the cause of the damage and indeed, in the event the item is out of warranty there is no benefit to accusing the customer of CID. If you’d reserved the litigious comments until after asking pertinent questions such as “what do you believe was the cause of this keycap failure, based on documentation I provided” you might have had a stronger case.
Now all you have is a litany of examples from around the web of you attempting to pressure FW into a different decision by essentially badmouthing the company. Which is kind of funny given your candor in the early emails re: additional purchases.
I was absolutely clear with you on Reddit and I’ll be absolutely clear with you here.
Claiming that Framework is not adhering to the law and that I will use my AG’s consumer protection office is NOT a threat for legal action. At no point have I threatened to sue, and agree that would be ridiculous. Accusing me as such is misleading and distracts from the issue.
You use the word badmouthing here. On reddit the word is “defamation”. This is a very serious accusation. If any of my statements are inaccurate I’ll happily update my posts and take ownership. Otherwise, I have every right to publicly share an experience that contradicts Framework’s marketing.
While I’m impressed by your creativity, I’ve repeatedly responding to these points and clarified my position. I’d appreciate if you stopped.
Maine’s language is concerned with a reasonable expectation for the lifespan of the product.
A keycap failing in two years, with a precedent for warranty coverage for the same repair, cannot be a reasonable expectation.
Remember that in other jurisdictions (the EU), Framework offers a two year warranty.
Please point me to exactly how I smeared the company? That’s a very serious accusation and I’ll happily take ownership if this is the case.
As for taking advantage of kindness… Did you read through the screenshots? That goes both directions, bub.
Framework as a company is not entitled to charity, nor am I. I have been utterly transparent about my communications with them, and have every right to share an experience where Framework wastes my time and then appears to not honor the implied warranty law in my state.
Their product didn’t hold up within reasonable expectations of use. They flipped from “warranty” to “customer damage” only after they realized they were on the hook. They should take ownership for it.
I’d argue that they did not flip. They simply did not initially forward the ticket for assessment on that. There was no need when it appeared to be out of warranty.
The title of this thread is:
Framework worked hard to lose me: a terrible experience with customer support
How is that not slandering the company? You are implying in your thread title alone that they intentionally wanted to waste your time just so they could leave you holding the bag. None of your screenshots convey that to me (and this is a subjective matter to begin with), and yet you persist, insinuating that the company is moving forward with ill will. How does this not meet the definition of smearing or slander? Especially with it on various social media outlets?
By this logic, if you were still under warranty they were going to ghost you anyway. Only thing is, there is no evidence of this in any cases that have been discussed here. Framework has been VERY generous in cases under warranty.
I’m not here to argue with you either. I’ve said what I think and that is enough. I think people can make up their own minds regarding this.
Like others here I do wish you a successful resolution in whatever form that may be.
I’m not on reddit!
The community here welcomes all forms of productive feedback. We don’t want to stifle feedback or experiences. However, I believe this thread has run its course. Back and forth about claims being legit or not are not what this space is for.
Note: we are locking this thread NOT deleting it.