My new Framework 13 had a two - or three - problems:
a key that always made a nasty scratchy-sound and which stopped working entirely after a while;
a bezel in which the covers for respectively the camera and the microphone rattled.
In response to 1, the support people (henceforth ‘Support’) sent me a new ‘input cover’. Even before I attached it, I could tell that the same key had the same scratchiness as it had on my previous keyboard In response to 2, Support send me a new bevel. That too - and even before it was attached - seemed to rattle.
None of that is the unintelligent part. The unintelligent - and frustrating (or more frustrating) - part (which, to end this echo of Douglas Adams, I would not call ‘a good bit’) is as follows. I have asked Support, more than once, to ensure that any new input cover be from a different batch to the previous ones that I have had. Support refuses to engage with that point. More: Support seems to say that the rattle - which admittedly is slight, unless one really shakes the bevel - is normal and unproblematic. Yet, in the same breath, Support offers . . to send me another - a third - bevel. My request for explanation - is the rattle normal? If so, why send me a new one - fall on deaf ears.
All of this takes time, is rude, and is frustrating. Also, I want, you know, a keyboard that does not have a distractingly-funny sounding - and nasty feeling - key, and, at least ideally, a non-rattly bevel. Oh, and, increasingly, Support is taking, sometimes, a week to send me its (non-)replies. It was in large point to avoid this sort of quasi-Kafkaesque nonsense that I dumped Lenovo in favour of Framework.
TLDR:I’ve two hardware problems; I’m being sent new parts that have the same problems and my calls for explanation are ignored.
I wonder if L1(?) Support has been somewhat outsourced…and they’re just running by the script…and don’t care about the cost of replacement parts / shipping / time / business. Like are these people (?) just billing Framework for the support cases…and so they don’t have skin in the game? (i.e. It’s not their company)
They may not have the option to fulfill your request. The distribution centers may have no means to ensure a particular item is from a different batch.
This could be a reason as to why your bezels are all coming from the same batch & have similar cam and mic cover. Quality control at the factory judged them to be within acceptable tolerance. And it might even be the only batch they have at the moment.
They are simply trying to make a customer happy, within the best of their ability, using the options that are available to them.
They may not be sure if there is an actual problem with the bezels, in which case they hope you get a better one, by chance. Or whether you’re just very particular, in which case, they are still hoping the next bezel might be better.
@MJ1, specifically - two points. (i) Being unable to fulfil my request seems insufficient justification for repeatedly ignoring that request. (ii) ‘They are simply trying to make a customer happy, within the best of their ability, using the options that are available to them.’ Perhaps. It is a poor situation though if they cannot avoid ignoring my points and cannot avoid seeming to contradict themselves.
There has been the following development. After I had sent a couple more emails, in which I pushed politely but firmly, and with complain, for explanation, I got an explanation. I hope that it is sincere. The explanation was as follows. I would have preferred not to quote the support person directly, even though that person was unnamed and perhaps the text at issue is ‘boilerplate’. Yet, I found the text hard to paraphrase. So direct quotation it is.
[W]e are implementing enhanced quality control measures for all products, ensuring that each item is inspected more rigorously before shipment. In addition, our team is conducting a comprehensive analysis to identify the underlying causes of the previous issues. This will help us address any design or manufacturing flaws. And finally, we are establishing a feedback loop with our production team to quickly address any anomalies or customer reports (just like what you have encountered), allowing for immediate corrective actions.
I suspect that I may well get a third defective keyboard and a third defective bezel. Or, if the bezel is not defective, in the sense that all the bezels are like the ones I have had, then they should tell me so. I wouldn’t even mind that much. It has been the keyboard that I have been most concerned about.
Videos of the keyboard key scratching and the bezel rattling would be great.
I find it odd that two input covers would have the exact same key scratching. I am also at a loss for how the bezel rattles given the way it is constructed.
I think a video, if you have the time and inclination, would really help to highlight these issues.
I did send Framework support relevant videos. Moreover, as of recently, I have posted those videos here. (Link updated so as to go to the right location within the thread.)
Out of interest, is it the up arrow key that’s scraping? I had the issue on the up arrow key (a couple of others are very close to also scraping) and gave up after my third replacement input cover had the exact same problem.
Thank you. I’ve sent support a link to this thread (i.e. to this forum thread, complete with its link to the Reddit thread). I note also the following.
A post within the Reddit thread explains the scratchiness: ‘my up-arrow key scrapes the upper edge of the aluminum cutout when depressed’. (I had not thought of that, but it is obvious now that it has been pointed out.)
The same Reddit thread has a putative solution that does seem - according to testimony within the thread - to work. But it involves dealing with some twenty-five screws.
Oh, bottoms! I was going to have a go in the hope of fixing the problem. But your - ultimately, helpful - information puts me off. And/but if I don’t do it then I fear the problem will persist forever or at least until Framework brings out a better keyboard and I pay good money to replace my current one with it - or, rather, with a new ‘input cover’.
Framework gets the screws in, so maybe if one takes their time, has a quality screwdriver, and applies the proper technique it can go fine. Enough downward force to prevent cam out, especially when starting. They are PH0 and Philips is evil for cam out. Particularly when small & when starting removal.
~edit~
Where’d you get 25 screws from?
I went to look, and it’s much worse. I counted 71 total, 23 black PH0 screws + 48 silver PH0 screws.
I’d recommend having a separate quality PH0 driver on hand besides the included Framework one. Some people claim the Framework bits aren’t the best.
Thank you for the information. (I am afraid I forget where I got my (mis)information from. It was from somewhere on this board though, I think. Perhaps the person who supplied the 25 figure - which that person said was approximate - was counting only the ‘PHO’ screws.)
For the bezel rattle, it’s the tolerances on the camera and mic hard kill switch sliders.
Doesn’t bother me at all, but if you want to change it for yourself you can look into that area. If you have some parts 3d printed with tighter tolerances you could remove the rattle.
The key board key removal is a bit of a pain, I’ve done it on some Dell laptops in the past. Not a difficult procedure if you’re slow, methodical, keep track of the screws etc. There’s a chance they will strip if you use too much force since the screws are thin, yes, but they won’t strip if you are careful and can purchase the replacement screws if you do strip one, something most hardware companies don’t offer.
For the tech support side of things, see the forum post where I outlined my thoughts.
Framework support is now insisting that I send the computer away for repair (or else return the whole laptop for a refund!). The support people seem to be ignoring my point that so doing is inconvenient and unnecessary. It is unnecessary because a keyboard need not be attached to a computer for the fix at issue to be carried out (and ‘seem to be ignoring’ because the poor English employed by Framework makes it hard to tell). Perhaps Framework wants the keyboard in order to analyse the problem. In that case though my sending the input cover would suffice.
I add: it took Support almost two weeks to reply to my most recent email.
If someone knows of a formal complaint mechanism, then I would be glad (for a certain value of ‘glad’, as it were) to hear of it.
It definitely shouldn’t take two weeks to get an answer—I’ll share feedback about this internally.
That said, I see that you’ve been offered two very solid options: sending the laptop to the repair center for detailed analysis and repair, or returning it for a refund.
Calling support agents unintelligent (literally three times in this thread) and belittling their language skills is not acceptable behavior.
From what I understand, you believe the issue could be resolved by adjusting the keyboard back plate under the keyboard, but you’ve stated:
You were sent two replacement input covers, but you declined to provide any pictures or videos with the second cover, stating (and I quote):
“No. I have had enough.”
Now, you’re being offered the option to send the unit to the repair center—where technicians can repair the unit and test the laptop, not just the input cover—or to return the laptop for a refund. However, you’ve refused these options and expressed a desire to lodge a formal complaint.
Please let me know if I’ve misunderstood anything.
I called their behaviour unintelligent - and claimed that they wrote poorly. Those things might be true - I think they are - and you have offered no reason to believe that they are false or that I ought not to say them.
2
I made it clear in this thread that I do not want to do the job myself because it is a rather difficult job.
3
Each of the two previous replacement input covers displayed its defect before being attached to the laptop; I could press the key and feel and hear the scrape. [Edit: the second replacement input cover had exactly that problem, just as the first replacement did. Perhaps my reluctance to provide a second - or, by this stage, third - set of identical documentation starts to become understandable here. Also: I am unsure that you, Destroya, ought to be quoting, here on the forum, from my emails - which I think you just did. ]
That is why fixing the problem does not require the whole laptop. Also: one reason I bought a Framework was that Lenovo broke my laptop whilst ostensibly fixing it.
The support people continue to refuse to implement the best solution or even to acknowledge its existence, despite my having described that solution to them multiple times. The solution is: take an input cover; ensure it works properly; post it to me. Instead of doing that, support keeps offering me the choice of either returning the whole laptop for a refund or sending the whole laptop in for repair. Let me stress here - as I have stressed to support - that the problem at issue manifests itself even before one attaches it to a laptop.
