The existing cursor (Laptop 13) in keys Up/Down are split and take place by one button. In my point of view it would be really useful to make right Shift button shorter because it’s completely enough for right Shift, and this space give to the full size cursor Up button to avoid the cutting of the button to take this space for two buttons. I reall apprecciate all your efforts and look forward to the new upgrades to buy it immediately. Thank you very much!
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Anyone who is a touch typist will not like this change since it challenges the muscle memory touch typing is based on. This is particularly true if you move between keyboards.
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I’m not entirely certain what the suggestion is here.
Making the right shift key shorter would seem to have only disadvantages:
- The shift key would be unlike any other key on the keyboard, except, I suppose the far less frequently used function keys? But because one’s fingers need to bend down to hit shift—I usually press shift essentially with part of my fingernail—it is harder to hit precisely than function keys, where one’s fingers extend upward. It would certainly be a different height than every other key in the same row.
- Rows would no longer be aligned, as the up arrow would extend into the lower character row, but only partially, because there would still need to be vertical space for shift.
- Because of this, the up and down keys would still not be able to be full height, because it would give them less than 2 units of vertical space.
It could be that the suggestion is to make the right shift narrower. This is done with the left shift on an ISO layout as compared to an ANSI one. If the left arrow were made a standard key width, then the up and down arrows could be made full height and standard alignment with a similar, narrower right shift. But this still causes problems: with ISO, one’s left little finger rests at about the same distance from the right side of the left shift as one’s right finger rests from the left side of the right shift, despite the two shifts being different widths. Having a shorter right shift, further to the right, would require a considerable stretch to reach while typing.
I’d continue to suggest that making half-height left and right arrows, perhaps combined with physical half-height pg up / pg dn or home / end, would be the better solution to the awkward arrow key layout. It would also be a change that could be done without requiring any change to the input cover, and is the layout that Framework actually uses for the 16.
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A “75%” keyboard adds a Del/Home/PgUp/PgDn/End navigation column on the right, moving the arrow keys to the right and allowing space for full size arrow keys where the up-arrow fits beside a shortened right shift key.
Example image from a related discussion: 75% kb layout with dedicated Home/Pg Up/Pg Down/End? - #2 by IOpo
Apparently, 2021-2023 HP Aero 13 laptops fit a 75% keyboard and are only 2mm wider than Framework 13, so width is close to wide enough. (That keyboard has half-height up/down arrow keys, though.) 75% kb layout with dedicated Home/Pg Up/Pg Down/End? - #5 by gcf
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I’m curious what you mean by this. My current laptop does the exact thing suggested and it causes me no issues whatsoever. In fact, I love having full-height arrow keys. I’m unaware of anybody, touch-typist or not, that regularly uses the right shift button for anything. At most I’ve seen it used in some niche applications as a modifier in hotkeys, but I can’t imagine having the right shift button be shorter would negatively impact this kind of use case.
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I’m pretty sure OP meant narrower, given the context. Some keyboards, such as the one I’m using right now, do in fact have a narrower right shift key to allow for full-height arrow keys. On my 16" laptop, it’s hardly noticeable, as it’s only barely more narrow than the enter key. Based on the Framework 13’s current keyboard layout, it would essentially just be making the right-shift key be about the same width as the arrow keys or the character keys. This way, the much more commonly used left shift key can be the same length.
Based on your writing, it seems you use the right shift key when typing regularly, which is honestly surprising to me. I’ve never heard of someone doing that, but if it works for you, that’s cool. The great thing about Framework is that, in theory, they could just allow you to pick alternate layouts for the keyboard cover depending on what you prioritize. I personally use the arrow keys all the time and find it really difficult to use the half-height ones, so I would love the option to have a 1-unit width right shift in exchange for the full-height. It wouldn’t even involve manufacturing any different key shapes, since they could use the same ones they use for every other key.
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I think most touch typists use both, just as standard course. Because it’s easier on the fingers. When a capital letter uses the left hand, the right hand uses the right-shift. Otherwise, you need to press two keys simultaneously with your left-hand for left-hand letters. Holding the left-shift with your weakest finger, pinky. And for most people, left-hand is non-dominate. Making it more difficult to solely use the left pinky. Say you’re typing a capital T, you’d be reaching up & right for t while also reaching down & left for left-shift with your pinky. Not only is this annoying and can slow you down, but it’s a legit health risk as it would increase repetitive stress injury. More stretching with the same muscles, in this case left hand, increases risk of RSI. And worsens it if you are already developing it.
TL;DR, I think many touch typists will be none too pleased with you if you mess with the shift keys. To put it mildly.
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Oh, that’s so interesting! I had never thought of it like that. I usually associate the left side of the keyboard as being easier to type capitalized because I can do it with one hand, but I’ve never been too interested in increasing my typing speed.
But like I said, the cool thing about Framework laptops is that it wouldn’t be messing with their shift key, as both could be supported. In the same way that those with a million peripherals aren’t having their USB slots messed with by those who want an Ethernet port, and those who want the highest specs aren’t negatively impacted by those who’d rather use an older mainboard, etc. Having more options improves the whole ecosystem 
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Standard touch typing technique uses the shift on the side opposite the hand of the letter being pressed, as MJ1 describes. For people who type extensively and are trained touch typists, it is quite important, and having it reachable while the right hand remains in the right area is important. A narrower right shift, shifted to the right, would make for a computer I would not use.
The linked HP Aero 13 layout, however, keeps the right shift to the left, adding keys to the right. That actually would be usable, and not an imposition: it would make the right shift around the same width as the left shift on an ISO-layout keyboard, and the same distance from centred hands. It looks like this is reasonably common for 65% and 75% layouts.
It does seem like that sort of layout might be possible, but as I think is discussed in the other thread, it would likely need slightly narrower key spacing in order to add the extra column of keys. My fingers are narrow enough that I’d be fine with that, but others might find it more annoying.
(Now, a real question would be why Caps Lock is still around, but I expect most people who care about layouts map it to something else, like Ctrl.)
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I guess that there are different types of users and different professions. As an example I am not a typist, I am a developer and engineer, I really don’t use so long Right Shift im my activity, at the same time I use arrows very often and choise here is the key for balance. In my point of view the solution is to keep the keys as is but they can be transformed to split Right Shift to two keys and keep key Up/Down as is but their behavior can be configurated in OS for example, like: split shift can be working as shift for both parts or can be override to Up ke and Right Shift for two parts, and Up/Down key can be Down for both or split to Up and Down.
Just thoughts.
I’d be perfectly happy with half-height left and right arrows. I’ve seen those on keyboards too.
I’ll settle for just blank space above those keys as well (no pgup/pgdn).
In fact, my thought is using the full-height space, but have a thin top section (as flush to the top cover as possible) but the bottom section is normal key thickness.
This gives the consistent feel of the arrow keys, but doesn’t require any changes to the type cover. Just two new keycaps.
Here’s a crude design of what I mean:
