Yes, agree there, Sherlock. Something as simple as running graphical setting configurator could hard crash a system shows the lack of focus / polish.
It is if you want a generally usable current gen hardware to run Linux distro OOTB. Last year, it was fingerprint reader and wifi issues with the 11th gen Framework laptop.
I’m not sure if that makes the situation sounds better or worse. Having Intel maintains their own iGPU driver…and this STILL came through the cracks.
You mean no one has submitted a bug all this time? i.e. You’re saying this alternative action would actually be more useful…sad if that’s true…because now you’re saying no one, anyone with a 12th gen iGPU, had file a bug as of now.
The kernel, sure is complex. Intel’s developers on iGPU…one job.
Finding excuses seems to be the exercise for Linux distro supporters. Get it done, right, should be the goal instead.
p.s. Ah…I see you’re new here. FYI then: I complain, a lot.
It’s not what I ‘rather’. It’s an indicator that Fedora 36 (released on 2022-05-10) was not sufficiently used / tested / reviewed by Framework even though it was dogfooding internally. Months gone by and it had not been reported (?) nor addressed until customers report on it? And to be fair, neither did any other 12th gen Intel iGPU linux-focus laptop manufacturer (going base on your mention that this isn’t a Framework-only issue)?
If you wait long enough…things may get iron out enough such that your business can use the Framework Laptop…assuming your use cases can dodge enough bullets / issues. On a positive note, it seems the 12th gen models have less reported issues than last year’s model. I think the product is maturing overall. And this particular issue is expected to get fixed via software updates.
But if you need a trusty laptop to run Linux, today…well, you have your actual user experience to know what your next step(s) needs to be.
Going back to the issue:
To the majority of computer users, they care about whether the system can do what they need to do, reliably, without curve balls. They don’t care about which software project messed up or who owns the code to fix. It’s a user experience expectation. The Intel iGPU team is dropping the ball in this instance…does it matter to most people who are experiencing the freeze that it’s Intel devs team who messed up? I doubt the end-users care about the who.
This time, I was watching a video through my browser (Librewolf) which was on wayland. I was in the Gnome apps menu sliding back and forth until the hang happened.
Didn’t hard reboot. I enabled the “unraw” sysrq value (alt+prtscr+R) and then was able to ctrl+C to kill the display manager. Waited a few moments to be presented with GDM again, and am logged back in right now.
==EDIT==
DON’T ctrl+c to kill gdm if this happens, especially if you do not have any accounts on the machine or are using systemd-homed to manage your acounts! My GDM got screwed up after I did that and was auto-logging into gnome-initial setup. I had to manually uninstall and reinstall gdm through a TTY, then entered my username and password to repopulate my account. Was a 20 minute detour that could’ve been avoided simply by rebooting the computer rather (ctrl+alt+del) than trying to kill gdm and keep the init running.
I think you ignore all those people, who dont have this issue…
You have no idea how many (percentage wise) are affected by this.
I am running F36 for about 4 weeks now and did not have a single freeze / crash and am very satisfied with the experience, so ymmv
Even big companies like apple push out new hardware with an OS that is home grown and still has bugs in it…
The following is somewhat related in concept / idea:
Not looking for bug-free software. Issue is with how ‘in your face’ the issue can be for those who hit it. Crashing in Gnome Settings is just one scenario.
True, i dont. Still only those, who have issues, get vocal about it, while the majority of people, who have no issues, stay silent. This can make an issue seem much more broad than it really is.
I have a fairly standard F36 installation, since i just started using Linux as my daily driver and dont want to mess with it too much. I dont have this issue.
Lets say the FW Team decided to give a 12th gen (each CPU config once) with F36 to three employees as a work machine for testing. There is a possibility that none of them had this issue, so how are they supposed to find out?
Who says that the bug was already present on Launch of F36 or when the first 12th gen were shipped?
There are so many variables to this issue and right now we dont even know who is the one to blame.
People always try to make this as a point…for something.
Regardless the of ‘broadness’, it’s a bug to be fixed. Just like the one audio polarity issue that was fixed in the BIOS for one reported user.
Comes down to thoroughness of the test cases.
Two claims were made by mjog (above); “Linux kernel driver issue”, and “will be present on every 12th gen computer that uses the igpu.” …so going with that, devlopers (Intel) should / would have seen it…even before Framework would…then eventually other Linux-focus laptop brands.
If the issue wasn’t present in software when F36 was first released, Framework could have already mentioned something along the line of “F36 updates introduced stability issue”…really early in this thread …close to 6 weeks ago.
Again, regardless ‘who’ to blame (consumers don’t care generally, they / we just want a working system, soon). I’m saying, it’s an annual event with Linux distros.
I know I’m uptight as hell. My view is mine, and yours is yours. I’m not here to convince anyone…and neither should you or anyone.
FWIW I came here from a backlink from the Lenovo Linux forums where multiple folks with a with 12th gen based Thinkpad X1 Carbon (mine’s a 1250-P) are having thermal issues with some running into GUI freezes or black screens. I have the i915 GPU HANG myself:
I get it randomly when playing youtube videos in chrome (GPU decoding) on a 4k display connected via USB-C/DP. Some folks get it on Fedora, I’m running Ubuntu 22.04 on Linux 5.18.19 (most recent intel patches) with Cinnamon DE, I don’t even have gnome-settings installed so I doubt the app that crashes is even relevant.
Lenovo seems to struggle hard to get thermals under control with the 12th gen in thin/small laptops. (see linked post from Lenovo)
So I tend to agree with the statement that 12th gen has issues across the board, it’s not just a Framework problem, Lenovo also sells the X1 Carbon as an Ubuntu and Fedora Certified laptop and are still working through issues. The frequent stutters, it’s effectively slower than my 8th gen Dell XPS due to agressive (thermal) throttling, and the lost work from GUI freezes… all contributed to me replacing it with a Ryzen 6850U based laptop coming in tomorrow.
Did the tree fall when no one is around to see it?
My point: It’s undetermined how widespread it is…but if the software (igpu kernel driver in this case) is the same 12the gen systems with Iris xe, then that lays the foundational condition for the issue to exist. Hitting it or not is another matter. Doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist.
Sure, there are ways where the issue can be sliced so that it may not apply to some systems (e.g. microcode difference, EU count differences…etc… we don’t know). But that’s what this thread is partially about: Ask the wide population, get data point, THEN narrow in. Till then, the wide population (12th gen) is what we’re looking at.
For example, wings breaking off from planes…you ground them all (of that generation / model) even if you’re an airline from another country. Go wide…then narrow in.
Back to your point: It’s premature to say whether the statement is absolutely true or false. On the side of caution is the likely path forward for now.
The crash happens randomly, and cannot reliably be triggered with the Gnome control center or app overview grid. It happens during music or video playback when it does happen. It seems that resuming from hibernation makes the issue harder to trigger on my end, though the opposite is true for other users here. Resume plays a part.
==How to fix==
The simplest nondestructive workaround is to enable the unraw sysrq command (set kernel.sysrq=4 in a config file in /etc/sysctl.d/).
Then, if the freeze does occur, do the following:
Enter left alt+prtscr+R. This will give keyboard access back to the init.
Then try switching to a different TTY (e.g. ctrl+alt+F3). You may need to hold down the fn key when switching TTYs if you do not have fn lock turned on in the firmware.
From the different TTY, you can do one of two things:
try switching back to the TTY running the display server containing your original session. If that isn’t an option, then
log in and kill gnome-shell, recover data, reboot, etc
This is the simplest workaround. As @davidk0 mentioned earlier in this thread, you can also send SIGINT or SIGKILL via SSH, which is an equally simple solution, though it will require a second computer and ssh configuration.
DWM on lightdm about every minute system freezes for 2 to 10 seconds
NixOS lends itself exceptionally well to reproduce issues of that kind as a configuration is completely almost bit-accurately reproducible. If someone needs a config, feel free to ask.
Btw. is the issue known to Framework? Should people contact support or something?
Interesting. Possibly a fix for the GPU hangs I’d run into, but possibly not for this issue. Fedora 36 is kernel 5.17, so it would predate the GuC changes in 5.19 mentioned in that link… but I’ve started bisecting to figure out what broken in between the working LTS kernel and the broken tip kernel, and I’ve found that 5.18 works fine for me, but 5.19 is broken.
I was getting hard freezes last night. I was using an app called Login Manager Settings for gnome. I was also using Gnome Tweaks.
Fedora 36 (Workstation Gnome 42)
5.19.9-200.fc36
No kernel extensions
SN850 (2TB)
Last night, it was happening in Login Manager Settings (a tweak app for the login screen). Any time that I would Apply changes the whole system would freeze up. Then, I had Firefox open one and opened Clementine to play music. Then, it seemed to keep happening in succession. I was watching a video in vlc with Firefox open, I’d open an app and the whole system would freeze up, sound would continue, but no mouse movement. Sometimes, I could hit ctrl+alt+delete and the offending app would force quit, but the system was super unstable and I would need to reboot. I had to shutdown the system with the power button multiple times. It happened 5 or 6 times with some glitching mouse movement and screen glitching (moving slightly up and down or seeing a garbled bar in the top row of pixels). I’ll be using my laptop for most of the day today, so far, so good.
Personally experiencing this issue when running Figma-Linux on Ubuntu 22.04 (native app). Hangs at very random moments. Running on 1280P. Figma in-browser (Firefox) works fine.
Have to completely reboot the laptop to get it back to working state again. Ubuntu/Gnome completely freezes, keyboard input (ALT f1/f3) and all displays are frozen.
I recently installed nVidia drivers along with egpu-switcher as I’m using the Razer Core X eGPU. So it could be related to that. However, freezes still occur while setting egpu-switcher to internal-only and it doesn’t appear to be the nVidia drivers that report the GPU hang. So my guess is that I’m experiencing the same issue.
Hey, I got my 1260p framework today, installed Fedora 36 and have this issue too. It happened for me when trying to add custom shortcuts in gnome settings and during gameplay. What I take from this thread is that this issue is hard to reproduce, for me however my laptop reliably freezes everytime I try to add a custom keyboard shortcut in gnome settings. Can anyone confirm that?
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