I am excited of receiving my new framework laptop.
I have been waiting for the second generation to have the debugged experienced.
Browsering a lot the forum, here is the I understand needing to be fixed / checked on this revision, in order of importance / severity. Most of them are hardware related, users seems to just want the same level of feature they are custom with previous laptops :
RTC battery failure
The laptop doesn t start for unknown reasons when unpluged pluged.
1’) Wifi 2.4GHz speed
Laptop with poor wifi is useless for most usages. We want the same performance has older laptop or smartphones with our current wifi setup.
USB C and module
Power drain idled & power shortages of all sorts, loose connection, disconnection. This one kills part of the concept, several users reports they have to unplug the modules all the time to avoid those issues. We need rock solid HDMI, USB A & C connexion like you get on any laptop.
USB C connected externa GPU is burning MOFSET inside the laptop (150C)
It seems a hardware design/ QC problem (at least throteling over 100C). Apparentely egpu are unsuported and this issue has a low occurence but high risk. Anyone having good expérience with egpu ?
Battery duration on regular internet browsering
Having a laptop that works for at least 6 hours unpluged watching video & internet via wifi.
Screen lide rigidity and hinge behaving properly
Heat management & sustained performances
I remember visiting HP factory and what they would do for advanced customers is called “burning”, basically they put the laptop in sort of a hoven at 40 degrees and see if it resists! My version is running a game for 2 hours to see how it behaves
MISC : Charging / Fully charged status LED indicator.
Dear early adopters:
Let me know if you have any things you would check for, that would be a no-go for you in this V2 ?
PS: will modify this introduction with your comments.
This is that the laptop isn’t certified for Thunderbolt 4 but compatible, from what I have read, connecting an eGPU and the blown FETs have not been related, anyway, that issue was more than likely a bad batch of FETs
Battery management / maintenance beyond just Max charge threshold. The lack of Min (start) charge threshold means the battery flip flop trickle charging during peak load.
Related to your list item 6: CPU performance, sustained.
Charging / Fully charged status LED indicator (specifically in conjunction with Max charge threshold configured).
Other things to check → No idea really. Never had I thought charging the laptop when it’s off could be an issue. But here we are with BIOS 3.09 beta (guess it’s beta for a reason).
Hoping not to see any Intel created silicon bug that manifested as an issue only on the Framework laptop (to my knowledge).
I agree, I have changed the title to be more explicite on the topic:
Hardware known to not work on framework V1 needed to be fixed on V2 intel 12th gen
‘Compatible’ is a bit of a gray area…because it’s somewhat conditional…depends on the device and use case. i.e. 100% compatibility isn’t tested / known.
your list is the union of the complaints rather than the intersection, so many of those need to be handled with care.
a couple of thoughts:
the most important issue you mention (RTC battery failure) is a corner case for most users. if you’re planning to actually use your laptop (for now it’s my single work device) you will never have that issue. i’ve never had it, i am quite sure i won’t experience it for a long time, if ever.
i have had zero issues with the wifi, i have a lot of networks at home and i have connected to others. this is unlike any linux experience i’ve had, where wifi always had issues.
battery duration and power drain are actual issues. not crippling as i mostly use the laptop at home but i’m sure others might find this annoying.
heat is not an issue for me. it’s currently 30 degrees here, stuff is actually burning out there and at home i have been playing several games for more than two hours straight, both proton (fans on all the time) and native (low heat).
in summary, be careful when reading internet forums searching for issues in a product
Think the keyword there is “needing to be fixed / checked” as there were some mention of experiences related to quality escapes. For example, hinge force, 200MHz, burnt MOSFET (last update from Framework: single digit incident count).
There seems to be at least three categories of issues:
Hardware issue due to design / lack of design. e.g. USB-A and HDMI expansion cards have high battery drain when in suspend even when there’s no external devices plugged into those cards. And lid rigidity due to manufacturing process selected.
Hardware issue due to assembly / component inconsistency which could have been prevented with QC at the factory. e.g. Hinge force, 200MHz (heatsink & fan assembly consistency), trackpad assembly tactility, fingerprint sensor / ribbon cable connectivity.
Hardware issue due to assembly / component inconsistency which would only manifest over a longer period of use. e.g. Burnt MOSFETs
not really, the forums are useful to report issues and this is great but most people who come here also come here to figure out whether it’s sensible to use this device or not. it’s very very hard here to distinguish nitpicks from actual issues.
for instance, the RTC battery issue is a textbook example of a corner case that’s been exaggerated by the (few) people that experience it. and it was great to report it because i think that the 12th gen chips fix it. great that it’s fixed, still a corner case for most.
A corner case, yes. One that seems to only affect the Framework laptop (to my limited knowledge), as it seems to be related to the RTC battery drain rate specifically.
Think I need to elaborate this part a bit, there’s a distinction of corner case interpretation here: 1. Where the issue exists. 2. Where the issue exists AND experienced by the user.
Similar to the differences between these:
A tree fell in a forest. e.g. One (or maybe dozen) laptop model has this RTC battery issues, among all laptop models in the market
A tree fell in a forest and seen by a person.
In both case, a tree fell / issue exists. But there’s a distinction between knowing it fell, and observing it fell.
It’s a corner case by both interpretations.
The priority of the issue changes from user to user base on their personal use cases. It is for each potential user to know / be aware of and THEN self-determine if the issue is a negative for them, or doesn’t apply. Just because it’s an corner case to the majority of users, it doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue to be aware of.
At a product level, it’s for Framework to prioritise if each issue should be addressed, how and when to be addressed, and other factors. …but an issue on record, nonetheless
I don’t think this is ‘fixed’. Framework implemented mitigation around it, but it isn’t clear if 1. Whether the RTC battery drain issue is eliminated. And /or 2. Intel has addressed the silicon bug.
Agree. Multiple sources, independent reviews are needed…beyond just forum posts. …but forum is where we’re at here… (i.e. shortcoming by existential predisposition)
Wait until you see the speeds I’ve been getting – 560Kbps! I occasionally get a staggering 16Mbps and it’s a dream whenever I do. And I’m able to use the Internet mostly fine, so…
@leppy232@Iann_C 2.4GHz throughput doesn’t seem consistent, could be laptop related (antenna/wire) or even something with the AP/AX210 adapter. In my case performance seems fine, the limiting factor is the ISP:
Using this AP (Netgear R7800 running ageing OpenWRT 19.07.10):
Intersting to read your answers. What I real mean is that if I have one of those issue at first usage, good chance i will send it back.
I waited for v2 in hope of a “normal” out of the box expérience… If I get rtc or wifi problems I don t want to fight with bugs for monthes . I need a working laptop for work
If I get usb module problems I might keep it… Thinking they may make new ones that work one day…
this is what i meant earlier with people getting misled into thinking that these “issues” are anywhere close to common.
@Iann_C: if you have the RTC issue people are mentioning it’s precisely because you’re not using your laptop at all. the battery discharges due to long periods of inactivity.
on the wifi: i reach 600MBps, comfortably, in the room where my router is. i also reach 90MBps in my rooftop 2.4GHz network, no hangups, no connection issues, nothing. if you do have wifi issues chances are that something is actually wrong, and that is what warranty is for.
The ideal goal is to minimize product issue variations…so that OOTB experience is as expectable as possible. Sure, there’s warranty, and there’s support… but don’t cheap out on QC and outsource / delegate that to the customers. There’s a degree of expectation that things should work OOTB.
e.g. One would have thought that floppy lid would be caught before shipping out…right?
In the case of wifi, is there a QC step to validate antenna assembly reception strength? (Blindly putting hardware together and hope it’ll work as intended within spec is not a validation step)
For a startup…it’s likely cheaper to support issue units after the fact they’ve been shipped out than it is to implement all the tests. But this is expected to flip the other way as they scale up the number of units.
Don’t forget that all early DIY units and currently US/Canada DIY units have the user installing their own wifi card, so QC has to be on the user for those, so Framework cannot confirm if a lot of those reports of poor wifi performance are incorrect installations, or other issues. This is the reason that all the European units, and future 12th gen units (I believe) have switched to all preinstalled wifi cards for prebuilt and DIY. Framework is still working on constantly adjusting their manufacturing and shipping processes as they get user feedback.
While this is a totally fair ask, keep in mind that the Framework laptop is not an established platform with a large team working to make it perfect. If you want a reliable work laptop I would personally tell you to look elsewhere, because a lot of issues like these are understandable, and it will take more time for the company to iron out the problems that users are having.
As mentioned above, while this is a reported issue with MOSFETs, it has not been confirmed to be caused by external GPUs. It is also only reported in a very small amount of mainboards, last I saw it was still less than 10.
Also mentioned in other comments, but eGPUs are supported, but Thunderbolt certification is still being held up by Intel. The hardware was made to support it, but the paperwork still needs to be done to receive official verification.
All 12th gen laptops are shipping with the new CNC milled lid, and many of the reports of hinge issues are from a manufacturing defect in a certain batch of hinges that has been resolved. if the standard 3.3kg hinges are not enough for you, there is a 4kg hinge set that can be bought on the marketplace.
I don’t know the exact issue that you are referencing here, but if you are talking about the fact that in BIOS 3.07 the laptop sometimes flashed the led indicator amber when fully charged, this is fixed in the beta for BIOS 3.09, but it was a minor inconveniece, because the laptop still indicated charge status, with a soild amber light for charging, and flashing amber or solid white for fully charged, which were just idications of using a battery charge limit or not. Some users were simply seeing the battery limit indication (blinking amber) after setting the limit back to 100%.
Also yes, that’s the goal. Therefore, it’ll be important and interesting to see if the change of the process would improve the overall wifi experience of the product (12th gen in this case). Framework will, as they’ve done, have those stats going forward.
i.e. Not sure if it’s a result of the charging state alone…or some combination with powered-off charging AND with Max Charge Threshold configured.
In either case, this is an area to check / test the behaviour of.
Thought I was the only one who thinks that. Glad I’m not going crazy.
Still want Framework to succeed, fast & soon.
This v2 / 12th gen board better come out ready for prime time…in the general consumer space at the very least. V1 was for early adopters, creators, enthusiasts…intentionally or not. It needs to be a real competitor, IMO, seen by other brands. A competitor that will shift their designs…not just respond with a “we have a prototype” (Dell).
That NASA placement was nice…and I’m hoping to see more of this.
Thanks for your answers they are very informative. It really looks framework is ironing its laptop in so many ways. Producing a computer at scale seems to be quite challenging and QC important for consistency.
As this last coment sums it up, I really hope this laptop is very close to the thinkpad or Dell pro expérience.
The experience I get today with thinkpad E590 under ubuntu mate has been very satisfaying.
I am very enthousiaste about what framework is doing, its just the only company doing it…
But bottom line I will inevitabely compare it to my current rigg. And I am looking for the better plateform for work. (Anyhow it wouldn t fit in the vision to buy laptops that you wouldn t use😁)
Totally with you on this. Framework Laptop, is first and foremost, a laptop…and needs to be measured as a laptop first before any of that upgradability, reparability benefit can be realised. i.e. No one with bother repairing something they don’t like using.
