this is what returns are for, if it doesn’t work for you you give it back
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Think there are multiple ways to look at this hinge issue:
- There was a quality escape issue, with a particular batch IIRC. Has there been QC improvement changes made going forward to minimize the chance of this from happening? AND is it actually improving the outcome (this needs actual stats)? i.e. Fixing hardware outcome by process change. (Handling in assembly stage)
- Framework Support also changed the bar / criteria for hinge replacement. Has this criteria been updated into the QC process change.
In either case, the ‘fix’ is not on the spec / design of the hardware, but fix of process (QC step) and QC bar…which will align the hardware that lands in customers’ hands with what’s in design spec.
Also, note that it’s not clear to the public how this QC step is carried out to validate against this QC bar. On paper, the spec is on the hinge itself. However, the warranty replacement with Framework Support is against the assembled outcome behaviour of the laptop as a whole. So, at the factory, are they checking against the hinge itself, or the laptop as a whole?
@Iann_C I think you raises valid points/concerns. The current hinges will not work with a future touchscreen upgrade and for some they are too loose and clearly for others not.
@Amoun @marco the 3.3 kg hinges can be 2.8 kg or 3.8 kg while in spec. have you considered you might have ones that are closer to 3.8 kg rather than it just being a case of personal preferences? Have you measures the force needed to move your screens?
Or maybe this why they made a 4.0KG hinge!
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So true. I would think that 2.8kg vs 3.8kg would have some perceivable differences in user experience.
Edit / Add: Question - Why isn’t there a tighter tolerance? Cost, initial funding. But we’re now into 2nd year…can’t this be improved with a tighter tolerance?
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There are no reports of the hinge breaking, I have said this before.
You are reading a biased report, as all are. The issue with the hinges has been explained, if you get a ‘soft’ one you can return the whole laptop or get a replacement hinge etc.
@Usernames I’m aware of the range and of course I may have one at 3.8Kg.
Yes I have measured the force required and it takes 0.5Kg to lift the lid, then it gets stiffer to a max of 0.8Kg. So with two hinges that’s between 1 and 1.6Kg. Maybe my scales are a bit of but not by more than 10%.
The whole laptop weights around 1.3Kg. If you hold it by the lid the bottom will drop slowly, so if all weight were in the main part then the hinges almost holds 1.3Kg which means each hinge only needs to hold 0.65Kg, much the same as my weighing measurements.
Well there’s a difference between a ‘cooling off’ period and a faulty hinge.
The new V2 comes with the same hinge, so clearly the general idea is that they work fine.
The 4Kg does not allow one hand opening, for those that don’t want it.
The laptop is sold as a ‘one hand’ opener, so no, the 4Kg hinge is not made as you suggest.
If there was a common failure in the 3.3Kg then no doubt they would now sell with the 4K but they don’t, it’s a preference. and unlike a touch screen is easy to produce etc.
For the lid, which weighs about 300g max it would only require hinges with a combined ‘stiffness’ of that i.e. 0.15Kg each. So if they were even at the low end of 2.8K or 1.4Kg each then I don’t see the problem.
This didn’t take the centre of mass away from the pivot point into consideration. Specifically horizontal distance. And this changes as the hinge is at different angle while going through the rotation.
I wasn’t able validate my “nominal hinge force” either but like you I measure the force needed to move the screen. Assuming you also used the top of the lid as the measuring point here are my values:
To open 350g to 90 degrees, onwards this drops to 150g then to 50g after ~135 degrees.
To close from flat 375g from 90 degrees it starts at 300g dropping to 75g.
To qualify for a replacement hinge you (originally) need to have it unable to support itself from a 155 degree angle, this margin has been widened but the indication is the screen still needs to fall under it’s own weight.
My screen does not fall under its’t own weight but will move quite easily, is my hinge a 2.8kg and yours a 3.8kg?I have no idea but if that is the case the wide tolerances make the 3.3kg unsuitable.
Because it has been implied the level required to get a replacement from support is falling under it’s own weight I mention the 4.0kg hinge as an option to those who don’t meet that requirement and want a more stiff hinge overall.
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Yes about the same. Are you OK with that ?
If I only move the screen by the front edge there is no horizontal difference and anyway how would the horizontal distance change by degree of opening? ??
You stated:
That’s the scenario.
In the second scenario (“move the screen by the front edge”)…the vector of the torque you provide to pivot the screen changes. (For example, if there’s no friction on the feet, you wouldn’t been able to turn that past 90 degrees.
In the first scenario, the vector of gravity doesn’t change.
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Above I understood 500g peaking at 800g force to move the lid my lid peaks at half that so I don’t think they are similar at all.
I’m not ok with such a low force required to push it over. Every time I pick it up is falls a bit, shake my leg is falls, slowing down on the train hold on tight! It makes for a very non premium feel and is not very practical either unless you use the laptop as a desktop.
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I had a Framework that would not work with my TV. Framework organised for me to send it back.
Now I have a bill from FedEx Express for £152.61 for the return!
Not a pleasant experience and an unpleasant return…
The only useful thing that may come of it is if you name the TV and model and how you connected to the TV
It could do with it’s own topic as it will get hidden here.
All the best
Where did you have to send it from and which batch and setup did you have?
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Hi @Paul_Hoyle,
I’ve been responding to you via your Support ticket. We use UPS for returns to our repair center partner in Germany for European orders, and I’ve verified the return label we provided was indeed UPS, and not FedEx. It’s possible this could a very delayed bill from the delivery (which shouldn’t have happened as well) and we need a bit more information from you to investigate what might have happened. We look forward to continuing the conversation in Support.
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Thanks Twistgibber.
I have had no emails from Support.
Paul
Thank you Framework for dealing with this issue, and confirming that you are going to pay it.
It was scary to get that bill.
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Hi @Paul_Hoyle,
Yes, that shouldn’t have happened. It was indeed on the shipment of the product, not the return. There was a small window when we were in the process of migrating from one logistics provider for international shipments to another where a handful of people may have been impacted by a logistics misconfiguration. No additional fees should be inherited by the customer beyond what was charged in the order.
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Posting here is not the best way to get help with this, contact support so they can address your issue.
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