Thanks for your answers they are very informative. It really looks framework is ironing its laptop in so many ways. Producing a computer at scale seems to be quite challenging and QC important for consistency.
As this last coment sums it up, I really hope this laptop is very close to the thinkpad or Dell pro expérience.
The experience I get today with thinkpad E590 under ubuntu mate has been very satisfaying.
I am very enthousiaste about what framework is doing, its just the only company doing it…
But bottom line I will inevitabely compare it to my current rigg. And I am looking for the better plateform for work. (Anyhow it wouldn t fit in the vision to buy laptops that you wouldn t use😁)
Totally with you on this. Framework Laptop, is first and foremost, a laptop…and needs to be measured as a laptop first before any of that upgradability, reparability benefit can be realised. i.e. No one with bother repairing something they don’t like using.
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The LED indicator bug was fixed, but there is a new bug with the actual charging that Framework has acknowledged and are working on fixing it now.
I feel like there is a sense here that because it’s the Framework forum, we can’t say things like “you shouldn’t buy the laptop” I disagree, and think that it does the company more of a disservice to recommend the laptop to people who want something solid. This is a laptop that doesn’t have a large test team behind it, but has a pretty good support team, so it may not be perfect out of the box, but if you put the work in you can make it work well enough for certain use cases (I have had mine since September 2021 and still love using it as my primary computer), but it still has its issues and can’t be the perfect laptop for everyone.
I can’t say I fully agree with this. Framework is doing their best to increase their customer base, but it still seems like it’s early in the company’s lifetime, and I think they will need more time to compete with the established companies in the laptop space. They will be competitive eventually, but the repairable and modular concept is still very new and needs time to work out the issues with battery life/build quality/etc that people are complaining about.
This is the main reason why I currently recommend a different computer. The Framework prioritizes reapairability and modularity over battery life and stability. Whether this is the right choice or not is for the customers to decide. I really wanted to buy a laptop that I could open up, change out ports, and I don’t mind if it has some issues with charging or power draw. At my job, my company wants me to do my work consistently, working ~8hrs per day, and never need to open up my computer, so they provide me with a Dell laptop. I think these are both the best choices for the use cases. Framework has an amazing laptop, but like any tool you need to know it’s strengths and weaknesses, and you can’t expect it to do everything perfectly.
This is definitely something that I hope Framework can work on moving forward. For me, I could see using this laptop for the next 10+ years with few to no changes, but I also have other computers for things like gaming, work, etc. If Framework wants to appeal to a greater market of laptop users, they will need to look into other laptop models that may give up things like modular ports for the sake of less power drain and more solid battery life. I hope they are able to succeed and grow, but I also think the current model(s) of the Laptop are limited by the fact that the company is still new to the scene.
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I am disappointed that i had to send my Framework v1 back because I was unable to get sound from my Sony TV, when I was using a HDMI socket in the Framework.
I was using Windows.
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That sucks. I’m going to give that a try in a moment.
Update:
What’s the model of your TV? So others will be aware of this particular compatibility hiccup.
I tried on an Asus monitor, a Samsung TV, a Marantz AVR, and an LG projector. They got audio from from Framework HDMI expansion card…in my case.
Were you expecting audio playback directly into the TV…or did you setup your TV to passthrough the HDMI audio to some other external devices / DAC/AMP / AVR…etc?
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My TV is a Sony KD-49X8505B. I live in the UK, it’s a UK model.
I just wanted sound with a video from the TV, via an online app.
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Wi-Fi has been fine for me. The only issue I’ve seen is its slow to pick up sometimes when you boot up. The World icon takes a few seconds to switch to the Wi-Fi icon in Windows 11. But as I’m not actually using the internet those 2-3 seconds not a biggie.
One thing I have noticed in my many years of IT Support tech guy is that on the very rare occasion you do get a Wi-Fi chip in a laptop and a WAP/Router that just do not like each other. They do not play well. I just swap the Wi-Fi chip and bingo, all good. Maybe some folks are just using ancient Wi-Fi routers. I see a lot of folks in their homes using 15 Wi-Fi devices off a router that has just 300Mbps of bandwidth!
The RTC battery issue? Well I’ve just decided to live with it. I’ll make sure I use my laptop more and just be careful if I leave it for more than 10 days not using it.
As for the other issues, well a lot of those are just a result of the want for thinner and lighter. I’d like to see the next gen of Frameworks 2-4 mm thicker/deeper so better cooling, thicker cases and larger batteries can be fitted.
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The one (actually two) buggers for me:
- Port connection
What happens is that HDMI and USB cables are very fussy, so when I touch them the slightest bit, they disconnect. - Port tightness
Pulling out my HDMI ejects my expansion card, USB-A isn’t tight enough.
I admit it could be because of the bad cables that came with my monitor (which otherwise is great), and they aren’t to-spec.
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Echoing two issues,
- Inconsistent WiFi: I’ve tried every possible thing suggested in the forums without replacing the cards themselves, but the speeds on both 2.4 and 5 bands remains inconsistently lower than on other devices (older Macs and the phone show the full speed provided by the ISP).
- 1TB Expansion card: Constant disconnection ,fairly well documented on other threads.
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If everyone treated software and hardware bugs like this, they would never get fixed. Just imagine Windows Update bricking 1% of Windows installs. That’s a lot of people, but it’s not everyone. Now imagine the people who have never seen this issue themselves saying that it doesn’t matter, and Microsoft shouldn’t feel any need to fix it.
Speaking as someone who was having the RTC Battery issue for months before Framework even addressed it, it matters. My only use case for a laptop is weekly at best, because otherwise, I am on a work or personal desktop, and if I don’t use the laptop for a week, it makes it that much more likely that the following week, I won’t be able to turn on my 60% charged laptop.
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Exactly this.
Look at the BIOS fix for the audio jack polarity. It was for a case of oscilloscope music. I personally don’t have a use case for it, but I appreciate the fix to address an implementation error.
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I was talking about the RTC battery issue. It wasn’t fixed, it was a month or two before the issue was talked about by Framework for clarification. I did explain in the post you replied to that I use the laptop at most once a week, and can occasionally skip weeks, so it is not difficult for me to run into that issue.
- it does not brick laptops
- it’s not 1% of the users
magnifying corner cases helps no one, and especially it doesn’t help getting them fixed.
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Sorry for this thread. I dont meant to make people fight on what is and what is not a problem on the current FW.
I was thinking of 20 years agonwhen Inwas building a PC for a friend of mine… I had decided for thi build to switch tonan Asus mainboard… At this point in time everyonen would have blue screens on windows 98… And allnkinds of bugs…
Sudenly I and my friend realised this Asus mainboard with intel CPU was so well made that those “windows” bugs didn t exist anymore… This Asus mainboard product was very robust piece of hardware!
And as somone mentionned there was maybe 100 small bugs afecting people on other hardware…but Asus decided to solve them all.
I think framework is heading for a very good product by solving every little glitch!
Try reading the post you quoted again, and see if your reply even made any sense.
What I did was use a piece of logic to point out a hypothetical situation with a larger user base to point out that corner cases are in fact still highly relevant to some people, even if others like to talk trash about others’ priorities. It’s a basic form of logic used to prove a point, and unfortunately not everyone understands that.
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Depends how you look at it. It’s somewhere between a hard brick and a soft brick…depends on whether you run this into the Intel silicon bug. If that’s the case, then the opening of the device (to do a reset) is an internal hardware intervention…which would classify it closer to a hard brick (but not truly a hard brick as no ‘re-programming’ is required).
It’s also beyond a soft brick…because there’s no on-screen instruction even when the main battery has charged. The state of the RTC battery at this point is low or depleted. And the laptop does not power up to even show an error message of “Low CMOS battery” (or to that effect). So by classification, that’s beyond a soft brick.
The cause of the low / depleted RTC battery state being cause by, what seems to be, high RTC drain is either an electrical or firmware related matter. This puts the “not able to power up” into a “brick” classification bucket.
Put it this way:
What other laptop do you know that can’t be powered up after sitting on the shelf for one month, with a healthy main battery charge, that came from the manufacturer within 2 months of product arrival?
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The question I have (may not be a correct question) is whether the 0.03 figure is the designed drain rate capability of the ML1220… Does that implies an upper-bound drain limit, or a nominal drain expectation? If it’s the former…and the Framework Laptop is constantly draining at the upper-bound…then I would think it’s a poor design.
Agree. Someone will have to see if this has been implemented on the 12th gen board.
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I’ll say it more clearly this time. I was not referencing the Intel silicon bug with my previous post, but a hypothetical situation. I was only trying to use this hypothetical situation to prove that these “corner cases” are very important for some people.
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Hinge doesn t seem to be fixed. ANd this will not work with touch screen upgrade 
- one of the reviewer had a broken screen… And I suppose framework has been testing a lot those unite before review…