The arrow keys were an interesting challenge. We actually prototyped both versions, and the full height ones ended up feeling better to most folks. It’s definitely a matter of personal preference though.
Happy to hear that the inverted t-shape for the arrow keys was prototyped – even though it was not chosen as the main one. Will a keyboard with the ‘arrow keys gap’ be available in the future?
OMG. That they prototyped a proper inverted T arrow key arrangement and then didn’t go that way is the most frustrating thing ever. I’m finding the hard part of getting used to the keyboard is the same thing in multiple places – keys that are all the same size and shape making it impossible to figure out which key you’re on without looking.
I would pay real money for a new keyboard with, inverted T arrow key, a double-width left control key and a gap between it and the alt key instead of just four identical square keys.
I have no use for the windows key or function key anyways, they’re just traps catching my finger when I’m looking for control or alt.
I know you can’t actually do the full size control key because of the metal grill (though I would think it would be easy enough to leave off that bit in future models). But the standard inverted T arrows would be a huge win.
I was considering buying the blank keyboard when it comes out – having proper arrow keys would make that a slam dunk.
One of the things that made me buy a Dell Latitude 5300 a couple years ago was the PgUp/PgDn around the Up arrow key. I constantly use Ctrl+PgDn to switch tabs in browsers and PgDn to scroll pages rather than the touch pad because I’m a fast reader, and the squished format of the keys on my work MacBook Pro really aggravate me, so I’m hoping it isn’t too frustrating on the Framework.
Yeah, the trouble is I can’t hit Fn+arrow with one hand while holding a baby on my lap with the other hand, but with a right side Ctrl I can do Ctrl+PgUp/Dn all day. I do use space to scroll, but it doesn’t work on all sites if they mess with the keyboard focus.
I’m sure I’ll get used to it, or I’ll just rely on Vimium more for tab switching (at least in the browser).
I’m about two weeks in, and I’m still not used to it. Nor do I really want to be - separate page up/down keys are really convenient. It’s obviously not a dealbreaker, but I’d greatly prefer an inverted-T arrow layout with the pageup/pagedown at the top left/top right. That’s how it’s set up on my Dell Latitude work laptop (with the bottom row extending downwards a bit past the rest of the keyboard).
I can only speak for myself, but that is my preferred layout. I move my laptop around and use it in every room, which means I’m often using while multitasking and want to be able to page up or down with one hand while I’m eating dinner, on my phone, etc.
Recognizing that no keyboard layout will satisfy everyone and even one or two alternate layouts seem to be prohibitively expensive for Framework to produce…
At the risk of sounding like a shill for AutoHotkey/xbindkeys, if you don’t use CapsLock, you magically have one-hand access to virtually any key or program or function imaginable:
And if you do use Caps Lock PLEASE STOP, it is a key that never should have been added to the keyboard (not only because it pushed escape up to its current painful position causing vim users much grief and RSI). This is also why I typically remap caps lock to escape if tapped and control if held so I can use it to quickly cut copy and paste or stop a process or send EOF to drop out of an REPL or shell without stretching my pinky too far.
I believe vim was created on a system before Caps existed, when Esc was closer to the home row.
Joy used a Lear Siegler ADM-3A terminal. On this terminal, the Escape key was at the location now occupied by the Tab key on the widely used IBM PC keyboard (on the left side of the alphabetic part of the keyboard, one row above the middle row). This made it a convenient choice for switching vi modes. Also, the keys h,j,k,l served double duty as cursor movement keys and were inscribed with arrows, which is why vi uses them in that way. The ADM-3A had no other cursor keys.
According to this anti-Caps Lock article by Daniel Colin James, the original invention of Caps Lock seems to be linked to this 1968 Patent, which applies to an electronic terminal keyboard invented by Douglas A. Kerr of Bell Labs.
James interviewed Kerr, who said he invented the “Caps” key because his boss’s secretary was frustrated by typing strings of characters like “@#$%” instead of numbers when Shift Lock was enabled.
But patents don’t always translate into real products. The earliest record we could find of an actual Caps Lock key on a commercial product was the keyboard built into the LA36 DECwriter II terminal/teleprinter. Announced in 1974, it was a teletype and computer printer rolled into one.
The LA36 DECwriter II’s service manual describes Caps Lock (on page 1-1) as a way to reduce the 96 upper- and lowercase character set into a set of 64 uppercase characters. Originally, you were only able to set this internally via a switch on a circuit board. This suggests that permanent capital-letter production was a desirable feature at the time. This might have been because people were accustomed to the all-caps style of many earlier teletypes.
I was happy to see the AMD version.
But sorry, due to the keyboard layout and casing material, I bought Thinkpad last week.
Dedicated Home / End / Pg Up / Pg Down / Normal Size arrow keys are so important to me. It speed up my navigations within Word /other IDE.
Noobs just navigate slowly using mouse. Most of the customers of the famous manufacturer are noobs. But nearly every other manufacturers followed him… That manufacturer leaded the trend on strange keyboard layout and non durable metal casing…
Some “ugly” looking keyboard, but every special key has a characteristic form. Full size arrow keys, full size enter key.
Somehow this has to happen! This will gather all the old computer nerds to buy a framework.
In case anyone checks this who knows what to do: the linked site doesn’t seem to exist anymore. Would someone please be so kind to write or link to detailed explanations on how to achieve remapping to any “superfluous” key that’s closer to the arrow keys, so they can be used in their alternative state, as page up/down/pos1/end? For Linux and Windows? It’s really annoying being told no-one uses those alt functions a lot, when people actually just maybe have decided not to buy a Framework laptop even due to the size of those keys.
Totally agree. All the things I would use a 13" laptop for (writing, coding, simple browsing) involve the arrow keys a lot, so the fact that there’s no option for full-height arrow keys is a complete deal breaker for me. I’m stuck using my heavy 16" laptop for the simplest of things just because it has the arrow keys I need.
As soon as they announce a 13" that lets me choose to have full-height arrow keys, I’m sold. Just eat up some of the space used by Right Shift! I can’t think of a single instance where I use Right Shift anyways, so having it be a bit smaller would work perfectly. Even my 16" laptop has a relatively reduced Right Shift to make space for the Up Arrow.
I hope they don’t change it! A lot of people seem to like the keyboard as it is. But having a new keyboard option would be nice, that way people could choose.
As for your proposed solution, that might work for some people, but it sacrifices a lot of convenience, makes the track pad unusable or uncomfortable depending on the exact keyboard and setup, and just straight up wouldn’t work in many contexts (I like to code in bed ).
I don’t mind the little arrows too much, but the lack of page up/down is bad.
I installed keyd on Debian 12. I have it set to use the caps lock key as a sticky toggle for what the arrow keys mean and I can see the caps lock LED as an indication of which mode I am in.
I am also teaching my fingers to know that ctrl-fn with my left hand and up/down with my right to change tabs. Turns out I don’t want to navigate tabs one-handed very often, but paging up and down through documents, yes.
Why nearly every computer manufacturer standardized on no page up/dn keys I’ll never never understand.
At least Framework didn’t take away the headphone jack, because it isn’t a “smartphone”. But I suppose the day Macbooks lose their headphone jacks the rest of us will be doomed to follow.
Very subjective subject. Basically after having to use all kinds of laptops for work I just dont really care anymore and have muscle memory for almost all of them.
If you are into keyboard navigation check out cvin for firefox or another browser vim bindings extension.
I would also prefer full size arrows. They could even be smaller than the normal keys if they were the same shape (roughly square). I’ve got this on my current Asus TUF, and it’s bearable although not ideal. I’m considering Framework to be my next laptop after this one dies (or before if I can afford it), and the current keyboard would not be a deal breaker, but a better layout would definitely an incentive.
Another idea would be to offer a side panel with the full size arrow keys and the navigation key block. I would buy that and swap between this and the numeric keys panel when I need.
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