Loose Hinge problem update. Framework support experience and other ramblings

@Chris_Eden The bug has now been resolved and the Marketplace now shows 3.3kg and provides a description of the difference between the 3.3kg and 4.0kg hinge.

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I think this is a significant step forward. In my case, the original video was not sufficient proof of a defect, but my second demonstration was considered definitive proof of a fault.

I think having to demonstrate issues via emails is quite tricky. WIthout being in person or on a live call, it can be hard to show the exact movement or mechanics of an issue.

Either the criteria had to be lowered, or a standardized test method should have been provided.

If I had accepted that my unit was normal(when it was clearly not) I would have thought the hinges were indeed designed to be loose and would have complained about them. The new, non-defected ones sent to me after my second demonstration, hinges are so much sturdier and overall better.

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Very true. Under regular use, my screen falls back regularly, which is hard to convey in a “staged” video where I’m using unnatural motions in an attempt to simulate natural use.

Glad they’re addressing the issue after my second email and giving me the benefit of the doubt. I’ll report back after I get the new set of hinges.

I also reached out to support, and they indicated the would only replace the hinge with the 3.3kg one.

I’m pretty disappointed, I must say. The price of the hinge is the same. The entire reason they’re producing different hinges is because we experienced these defects from a new product and raised our concerns.

This whole process around getting support for our devices feels more and more like a major downside of the company. I get the feeling more like “cheap insurance that tries to weasel out of every claim” rather than doing right by the customer. I’d rather have dell support at this point :frowning:

I’ve had the exact opposite experience when I have needed to engage Support. In fact, they have gone over and above the few times that I have needed them.

My experience with Dell Support was not so great. The entire top of the laptop had to be replaced due to a bad key. They sent a tech onsite to do so. I discovered later that the power button no longer worked. When I pulled the bottom cover to take a look, the reassembly was a mess. So no, I would not rather have Dell Support.

Is Framework perfect? No. But in my opinion they are doing well for their size, the fact that they are a startup, and that this is a first generation product. I think it’s OK to hold them to a high standard, but to say that you think that they are trying to weasel out of things is unfair and taking it too far, again, in my opinion.

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As things stand with the tolerance range you could actually end up with looser hinges buying the new 4Kg hinges :laughing:

3.3kg hinge = 2.8kg-3.8kg range, 4kg hinge = 3.5kg-4.5kg range, the floor is 3.5kg which is 700g more.

I rather wait for a redesign with lower tolerances and perhaps adjustable, these hinges will only get looser over time and mine are on the low end of acceptable currently…

Can you please share the new criteria?

Slightly related: I notice that we’ve been talking about the hinges in kg (3.3, 4.0…)…but really when it comes to torque hinge / friction hinge…they go by torque measurements. Not sure what that really is on the hinge kits.

It is quoted as nominal force which I understand as a perpendicular force applied directly to the hinge. I’m not sure what the correct way to quantify it is but I would think user required force to move the screen would be most useful to most people.

The criteria really hasn’t changed but we’re reviewing on a case-by-case basis. The laptop must be on a flat, stable surface. You should be able to set the screen at any angle and the lid should not fall under its own weight. Bouncing the system on a lap or lifting the system up and shaking is not a valid test for hinge force. If the laptop is expected to be in somewhat turbulent environments where stable surfaces are few and far between, we recommend purchasing the new 4.0kg from the Marketplace, when available, for the extra hinge force. You will likely lose the one-handed open ability with the 4.0kg though.

Are we saying that commute use case (train, flights, trams, subway, streetcars, back of the car…walking with it opened between meeting rooms…you get the idea) use cases are not supported by the default OOTB 3.3Kg hinge? And additional purchase of the 4.0kg hinge kit is required to make the Framework a useable laptop in those case?

Like, I’m not Maverick trying to use a laptop at 7g or something… But surely, typical flight / train commutes should be a normal use case where additional purchase shouldn’t be required / need recommending.

This is really cramping my style… LoL. :crazy_face:

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That’s quite a hyperbolic response to what I had stated above for a valid test to see if the hinges are out-of-spec. If you are planning to frequently be in environments where stable surfaces are not commonplace, we recommend purchasing the 4.0kg hinges. If you have “in-spec” 3.3kg hinges, you shouldn’t have a problem utilizing it in different scenarios and environments, but 4.0kg hinges can provide extra hinge force.

Had to look up what that means. Now I know. :slight_smile:

Maybe I’ll open a support case and see where my unit stands in that criteria. I’m guessing a video will be required.

It sucks (for everyone involved, your team included) that such a basic (but critical) component is a support matter.

Update: Sent. (Lifting and holding the laptop…not completely horizontally).

Thanks for the response.

I understand the suggestion of buying an upgraded hinge if dealing with enviroments that would require more rigidity. I’m not sure if that is my scenario.

I could really use a way to quantify the spec of my current hinges before knowing if I need the 4kg ones. My current plan is to try and modify my existing hinges first and if I accidentally destroy/damage them replace with either a 3.3 or 4kg set.

A test I can think of is the minimum force or mass an in spec (but lowest end of spec) set of 3.3kg hinges would need (when attached to the lid behind the camera) to open the display from a 135 degree angle to flat and close the lid from a 45 degree angle. I’m thinking we can make use of the magnets to attach weights to the lid edge.

For a qualitative example, if I pick up my laptop lifting from the front especially with the screen at an angle of more than 90 degrees it will open a little further each time unless done slowly.

I just had one of the most astonishing experience with Framework Support.

Video of my hinge behaviour was sent out to them at 2:30pm. A couple of emails regarding the support case status and contact details confirmation… and then a shipping notification of the replacement hinge. All done by 4:53pm. That’s a turnaround time under 150 minutes. That’s absolutely unheard of in PC support…over my 25 years experience with business / enterprise level support as an end-user.

Let me reiterate: That’s a case opening, issue review, issue escalation, issue analysis & conclusion, and ship out. All done in under 2.5 hours.

I have nothing but good great things to say about every single interaction I’ve had with Framework Support over the 11 months. Every single time.

That really should mean something if you’ve been following me about how picky and pain in the butt I can be.

It’s absolutely my fault for not reaching out to them sooner to have this issue looked at.

I’ll post an update of what the new hinge behaviour / experience is once I get them.

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Right I’m convinced to do the same then, I’m certain the 50g of force to push the screen down is not in spec but was worried it would be a waste of everyones time because it would be refuted based on publicly available metrics for qualifying replacements.

Edit: Support watched my video and will be replacing my hinges also. Planning to update when they arrive.

So it seems like we both fall into the “review on a case by case” scenario.

Initially, I was really hesitant on contacting support because my hinge behavioural issue doesn’t fall into the “stationary surface, lid fall under its own weight” bucket.

But now, I can see that it essentially comes down to: If you have any issue / wierdness / undesirable expereince with the hinge…the suggestion is really just like any other products (laptop or not): “Have it looked it”.

@Second_Coming I think this comment explains how we got here, at least for me I accepted my hinge behaviour as ”in spec”.

…and we didn’t get word that earlier batches (batch 2 in my case) had quality escaped hinges.

I remember this from the hinge explainer thread but not sure if there was more said.

I ordered a batch 8 but a CPU change put me into 9, way after autumn reinforcing my belief I had an in spec but low end hinge.