For what it’s worth, I had only good experiences with support, and always got the exact help or answers that I needed or wanted or didn’t want to hear (in a good way).
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Good to see nrp responding…but hate seeing that it takes an LTT video to kick start those needed corrective actions. (Like, we on the forum knew there’s been ongoing gaps for awhile now, and not isolated)
Edit: Think the experience and feedback from the LTT video can be summarized into the following areas:
- QR code / link accuracy.
- Guides’ details (the why: input cover cable) and addendum (comments): Screw crunch and feedback.
- B2C / Consumer support.
- B2B / Enterprise support
- Shipping and return shipping (timely, good).
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Yup, same feeling that lets you wonder how long it would have taken Framework to come up with the Keyboard deflection kit if it wouldn’t have been the central thing in an LTT review.
Actual props to Linus for letting his team do those vids, but the reactionary nature of Framework doesn’t really fill me with confidence in the company improving in the future. When companies get bigger, support typically gets worse, not better, and also IMO the quality of support reflects the culture and values of the company, of its higher ranking people, and symptomatic fixes here and there might not be very effective long-term.
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Tbh from my experience, Framework’s support really could do with improvement, especially with communication regarding issues.
I got the Ryzen laptop quite a few months ago, it was plagued with frequent random BSODs (later caused by some faulty bios and a trackpad issue). They’re resolved now but it was frustrating even trying to get someone from Framework to look at the thread or just communicate with users. I get it wasn’t an easy problem to diagnose because it was a very non-specific error code and it was so randomly triggered to stand out at anything usually so obvious. It was just the lack of communication that really rankled us I guess. I also get that Framework is still a new company and it takes time to build as well.
I love the concept and repairability, but it was frustrating. The laptop now the BIOS updated and resolved the issue is now generally fine (though I do have a case of keyboard chatter on occasion.
Oh and the fingerprint scanner can be better because it sometimes doesn’t register my fingers correctly all that well when my phone has no issue with it. Anything positive coming out of this I’ll be onboard. I want Framework to succeed on those principles where other shitty companies and products fail, but it did really feel let a let down going through that experience.
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This reason will eventually start to get old at some point, if not already.
Agree.
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As someone that’s had a problematic encounter with support in the past, I am glad to see some potential improvement going on in the support department.
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I was one of the Framework 16 uneven thermals gang and my experience with customer support was what I would call exceedingly thorough with what they wanted me to test, photograph, screenshot, and film. I get that replacing a motherboard is probably on the expensive side of an RMA but between the number of people experiencing the issue and me not looking for a refund or free upgrade I think it could have been a bit less involved/intensive. I am satisfied with the resolution to the experience, but it could have been a bit more smooth.
Based on LTT’s video it sounds like that damned RAM shuffle suggestion is still there, but the process seems to be getting better.
Customer Service is something that is never perfect. It is an infinitely deep rabbit hole that can easily outstrip earnings. That NRP responds at all is excellent. I would honestly prefer that Framework focuses primarily on making their products, improving them, and making new ones.
All of my experience with customer service have been great.
Thanks NRP for being here and for continuing to improve on the awesome that Framework has already accomplished.
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On the RMA replacement side of things, they should (in my opinion) take the following steps:
- Streamline the data collection process to the bare minimum to establish that the hardware is malfunctioning. Some of this could be automated through a support case creation portal.
- Cross ship RMA replacements via Next Day Air or similar express parcel delivery service. Framework can add a “we’ll charge you if you don’t return the defective part or the defective part was actually a customer damage case” clause to the cross ship agreement to cut down on RMA fraud.
- Work with other companies and contractors to offer on site repair service options and extended warranty+support contracts at an additional fee. This would better cover the enterprise and institutional customer use cases.
I have already suggested this to FW, but they could improve their BIOS to help streamline their support engineers time.
For example, if the boot up flashing LED pattern was modified to identify which RAM chip was the problem, instead of any users needed to do a RAM shuffle, it would save everyone a lot of time.
E.g. one light for each of the following cases (instead of a current single flash for all 4.
- Slot 1 chip detected / slot empty.
- Slot 2 chip detected / slot empty.
- Slot 1 chip OK/Not Ok
- Slot 2 chip OK/Not OK.
Similarly for each M2 slot.
There are other improvements. e.g. If there is an external monitor attached, default to the BIOS screens being on the external monitor. This would make fault finding related to the laptop’s own display easier.
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Agree.
For example: That captive screw catching the lid (not the bezel) is a design oversight IMO. If the edge of the lid in that area is ever so slightly curved, rather than the right angle…then it wouldn’t have caught so hard.
…but I would also say that Framework being a laptop company, it’s not just the hardware, it’s the UX, before, during and after sale. The competition is tough when you look beyond just the hardware itself.
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I’ve never been one to complain or talk poorly about customer service, etc. But maybe I’m getting crotchety as I get older, lol. Who knows.
I’ve had several great experiences with Framework support. However, the one I’m dealing with right now could certainly be better.
First, it took nearly two weeks for them to reply to the initial ticket, and that only happened after I replied to the ticket, asking for updates. However, a very reasonable and timely set of exchanges occurred after that, culminating in support shipping out a new mainboard to hopefully resolve my issue.
Unfortunately, after receiving and installing it, I found the replacement mainboard was defective and unusable. I sent them a reply, detailing the issue and extensive troubleshooting done, as well as the fact that I swapped back to my original mainboard and confirmed that the new issue was not present on the original mainboard.
Four days later, I finally got a reply. They wanted to confirm that they were good to close the ticket, since my original mainboard solved the issue.
What? It doesn’t seem like they read or understood the situation properly. This was a different responder than all the others. In fact, I’ve seemingly had five different people respond to the ticket at different times. Sure, the original mainboard “solved” the issue that the replacement board introduced. But the original issue remains with the original board.
I still understand, and I’m not mad. I just can see how that type of interaction could be pretty frustrating for people who just need their machine to work and don’t have weeks to go back and forth with support on misunderstandings like that.
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LoL…code mainboard merge…or maybe they think you’re Louis …donor board.
Update: Just in time…fix your own boards…lol
I have to say my experience with support was not great but then I was one of the very few trying to get someone to listen that there was a CMOS battery issue with the 11th gen.
But as is the case, not giving in to gas-lighting from Framework and derision from other forum members finally got it recognised and worked on.
Just keep pushing and don’t get fobbed off.
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My experience summary
Support has slow, incomplete communication, wastes hours of my time with very questionable testing on their behalf, and has now had my $2,039.93 computer for nearly 8 weeks with no end in sight and no communication besides “we are committed to resolving this matter as swiftly as possible.”
More background
I preordered the Framework 16 in early May and initially received it June 12. The price was quite high ($2,039.93 for my configuration) just considering performance, but I really liked the customizability and the idea of being able to add a GPU later. After initially receiving the laptop, I reached out to Framework support asking about expected performance. My scores seemed a bit lower than what LTT and NotebookCheck reviews indicated I should be seeing. After three weeks with me doing a ton of testing with questionable value on their behalf, they sent me a replacement mainboard in July. They never did say what performance I should expect. After more issues (major issue being macropad stopped working, other issues being maybe bent heatpipes and one USB port not working), Framework asked me to ship the entire computer to them. I did so on August 15, within an hour after finishing my final exam for a summer class and 1.5 weeks before my fall classes started on August 26. It’s now been 7.5 weeks since I sent them my laptop, and they’ve provided no estimate whatsoever on when I should expect it back. I expected Framework to keep it for max 2 weeks. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes them 3 months or even more. Thankfully I’ve been able to borrow my wife’s computer to continue doing my classes, but she’s in school too and therefore we can’t both be doing our schoolwork at the same time. Quite inconvenient.
They never even acknowledged they received it at the repair center, let alone have given any indication they’ve started any diagnostics. The only updates they’ve ever provided are when I have reached out. I haven’t reached out in the last 3.5 weeks, and have had zero updates. I expected weekly or at worst biweekly updates. If they had communicated they had no bandwidth to even look at my laptop before I shipped it, I could have continued using it with the broken macropad and used the other 5 working USB ports and the partially degraded performance. But they haven’t communicated anything other than “we are committed to resolving this matter as swiftly as possible,” so in some sense I’ve had zero updates at all since shipping it to them 2 months ago.
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Just an update. It has been another week and I’ve still heard nothing more back from support. Even after replying to summarize the situation (to make sure there was no confusion if a different support person looked at the ticket) and ask for an update. Hopefully I hear something this week. But at least I still have the computer and I can still use it with the original mainboard. So it’s really not a huge deal for me, like it is for some others.
I asked for an update again this morning. They finally got back to me this evening. They wanted pictures of both sides of the mainboard, as well as pictures of the mainboard internal and external packaging from “all angles.” I provided that. Well, a few angles, maybe not “all”. Now they want me to re-install the replacement mainboard and take a video demonstrating the problem.
Just over a month since I started the ticket. 25 emails exchanged so far (though, to be fair, three or four of those were basically just me asking for updates afters a few days to a week went by without a response), multiple pictures and videos sent, mainboard swapped twice, hours of time spent, and now I have to swap the mainboard back and forth again. I should have taken a video of the issue with the new mainboard in the first place. But I was just in troubleshooting mode and didn’t think of it until after I’d already switched back to the original mainboard to see if that would solve the new issue. It did and I was like “Well, now I can’t show the issue without switching back again. I hope they don’t ask for that.” They asked, lol.
Very early on, I realized that “It’s repairable” means “You fix it, we don’t have a repair centre.” (Even today, it’s outsourced). Meaning, you are the documentation party as well.
I mentioned it awhile ago…having a DIY laptop doesn’t necessarily mean I want to fix it myself. Having a repairable laptop also doesn’t necessarily mean I want to troubleshoot, fix it, and document it myself either.
With so much time dumped into an “I need this fixed” situation…it truly involves some hidden costs.
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I actually don’t mind fixing it myself. I think it’s kinda cool that they will just send parts and let me fix it myself. And I understand that they can’t just assume everyone is doing everything correctly or even telling the truth. But it’s still a little frustrating for them to have me fix it myself, then have them basically say “Yeah, you’re going to have to do it again with pictures and videos to prove it.” Also, I told them it would be a few days before I had time to swap the mainboard back in to get a video of the problem, and asked exactly what all they wanted to see in the video, so I can be sure to get what they need. They replied and simply said they would await my video. Then told me to please follow their mainboard replacement guide. They’re probably just trying to be helpful, but it feels like they are implying I did something wrong, or didn’t follow the guide the first time.
I don’t know. It just feels like there’s always a slight detachment in the back and forth.
I explained the issue with the new mainboard, in detail. Wrote up a detailed list of troubleshooting steps I did with the new mainboard, along with the results. I said I had an RMA issued for my original mainboard and asked if I should use that to send back the replacement instead. I said that, as I had said in my original email, my original mainboard has been reliable, it just has uneven core thermals, and I’m still willing to experiment with other TIM options myself, rather than having them expend the cost of having new mainboards shipped out.
When they finally replied, they simply said they were sorry I was having trouble with the new mainboard and then gave a numbered list of the packaging and mainboard photos they wanted. Not even an acknowledgement of anything else I said. But that’s fine. I sent the requested pictures, as well as a detailed explanation of the state of the packaging upon arrival, and a video showing how the mainboard box could slide around in the outer, shipping box as it arrived.
Their reply again acknowledged none of that. They simply asked if I could reinstall the new mainboard and get a video, demonstrating the problem. I said I could, but it might be a few days and asked if they could tell me exactly what they want to see. I asked if a short video showing a text box and nothing happening when I press keyboard keys would suffice. They replied and said they would await my video and to please follow the mainboard replacement guide.
I have to think the request for a video of the problem is either a scripted question, or a trust thing. Because there’s no way “keyboard doesn’t work” needs a video to show what I mean.
That’s how the entire interaction has been throughout the process. Also, this is now the fifth or sixth different person who has been replying throughout this process.
None of this is really a criticism, exactly. But it’s honestly getting a bit frustrating. It almost seems like keywords in my emails get flagged and trigger a scripted response. It doesn’t feel like someone is actually reading and considering what I said, and then responding. Maybe that’s just due to how busy they are, but the replies can sometimes feel canned and it makes it feel like they are ignoring you, to an extent.
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It feels like on the one hand they want us doing a ton to troubleshoot their DIY laptop. But then on the other hand, they ignore the detailed troubleshooting steps we tell them. It has to be their exact request, in their exact order, or they essentially ignore our. So we’re not really troubleshooting for them, we’re just following a series of steps on their behalf.