Similar to @Alex_Uta above, I would probably no longer recommend the FW 16 to anyone who doesn’t like to tinker, or to anyone who needs the laptop for critical work as their only machine.
I originally planned for the FW 16 to be a replacement for a “desktop” computer. I was going to use it for some light gaming, but mostly as a video and photo editing machine, and for running some other creative programs. Unfortunately, I had a project that needed done while I was waiting around for FW support, so I ended up hastily building myself a cheap-ish, small form factor, desktop editing rig. I was able to get my project done on time with that, while my FW 16 sat, wating on the next reply from FW support. Technically, I could have kept using it. Other than max fan noise and potentially reduced performance, it did work. But FW support kept asking for more tests and such, and I just didn’t want to be in the middle of important projects while also going back and forth with different mainboards for testing.
Don’t get me wrong. Any computer can fail. I don’t know that you are necessarily any less likely to have a problem with a Dell/Lenovo/HP/etc. But when a problem with the machine may result in a month or more of back and forth emails with support, that’s a tough ask for a machine you need for work, or whatever.
I think that the big “takeaway” for the Framework support team is this: Customers should be getting a premium support experience for their premium priced laptop.
Slightly longer version: Framework should not be outsourcing basic repair duties to customers unless the customer explicitly requests that level of service. Furthermore, RMAs should be traceable 24x7 via the support website with any RMA milestone notices getting pushed directly to the customer via their preferred method. Framework will be greatly limiting their customer base if they keep going down this road of assuming that everyone that purchases their product has a basic competence in electronics repair.
To be fair, I purchased a DIY laptop and I’m more than happy to troubleshoot and repair it myself. But it does get frustrating being asked every question two or three times by different people; being asked for the same pictures multiple times by different people, and being asked to perform the same tests multiple times by different people.
Jeez louise. The saga continues. A week after them saying they’ll send a replacement laptop, and I get this:
The replacement laptop is still undergoing additional testing to ensure it is fully functional before it is returned to you. Please rest assured that we will notify you once we receive an update from our repair center partner.
Precisely. Very strange. I think this must mean I’m getting someone else’s laptop which has/had a different set of issues. I am not looking forward to conducting my own thorough diagnostic after receiving it, and potentially finding a different issue.
Sounds to me it’s a “Please wait a moment while we stitch up your system.” kind of situation.
To be fair though, even with Lenovo or Dell, if they send you a replacement laptop, it’s at their discretion whether you’d get a factory fresh laptop, or a re-certified / refurbished unit…because you’re now in the warranty period. With that said, if your issue started within the return period (I don’t know when your unit started exhibiting issues), and you sent the unit in for 6-8 weeks for repair…then it’s, IMO, ‘reasonable’ to ask for a factory fresh unit or even a return/refund (at their Framework’s discretion).
I just wanted to update, for anyone following my situation.
Support replied and apologized for the time and frustration. They offered to go whichever direction I wanted to go (send in for support, try another mainboard, send me a new liquid metal pad/kit, or let me just experiment myself, without affecting my warranty). I chose to just have them send a new liquid metal pad, so I can try another one at some point. For now, my computer is working, so I’m not too bothered.
Despite frustrations along the way, I’m still going to give them props for sticking with it, and ultimately being willing to send parts and/or have me send the computer in for repair. Sure, not all is perfect with the process along the way. But I think they are genuinely trying to help and make sure people’s machines get fixed when there are issues.
So, be aware of potential delays and maybe even some repeated questions if you have to reach out to support, especially if it’s a complex issue. But if you stick it out through the process, so will they, and hopefully you’ll get a satisfactory resolution.
At least I’m getting weekly updates from Framework now, that’s a major improvement.
Unfortunately the updates on Oct 18, 23, and 28 are all slight variations of:
Thank you for your patience. We would like to inform you that we are still waiting for an update from our repair center partner. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Please rest assured that we are actively working on it. We will promptly contact you as soon as we receive an update from them.
Thank you for your understanding.
How can Framework decide to proceed with replacing my laptop, then decide my replacement also needs diagnostics and repairs, then not get around to diagnosing and fixing the replacement for a month?
It’s been 11.5 weeks since I mailed the laptop to Framework, and 3.5 weeks since Framework said they’d replace it.
At this point, I feel like Nirav should be personally picking out a brand-new laptop, flying it to me, assembling it for me, testing it for me in front of me including the famous RAM shuffle, giving me another 12 months of warranty, and giving me a $500 Framework store credit. Or something like that. Unreasonable, sure, but that matches my unreasonable experience so far.
No, anyone buying a brand new laptop gets it in just a few days.
The issue is when you receive a defective laptop which can’t be fixed with replacement parts – Framework asks you to send computer to a service center, doesn’t send you any replacement laptop to use while the laptop is in service, and if during service they decide your laptop is unrepairable then they apparently still don’t send you a new laptop but try to find someone else’s broken laptop to repair and send to you instead.
Finally after my latest irate email after weeks of waiting patiently, Framework magically suddenly has a laptop ready to send and has actually provided a shipping number.
That’s really dumb to me that waiting patiently is apparently bad. Anytime I waited patiently, Framework would do nothing for a month. Finally I’d send an irate email, and magically the very next day there’d be a major update. That’s a terrible way to handle customer service if you don’t actually do anything until the customer reaches a certain level of frustration.
Finally got the replacement on Nov 7. That’s 12 weeks / 84 days turnaround.
Thankfully the major issue of my macropad having stopped working is now fixed, so at least the service center did something for me.
Performance of the repaired system is worse than when I shipped it to them, but I guess I’ll deal with it since it’s not too far off. Scoring Cinebench R23 multi of 15737 which is still 600 points lower than NotebookCheck, but I guess I’ll deal with it for now.
Other frustration of a USB-A video device not working in my left-nearest port is still not fixed. So that’s extremely annoying, but I can get the device to work in any of the other five ports so I guess I’ll deal with it for now in light of the ridiculous support experience for a $2000 laptop.
Framework Team member Destroya shared that they have found root cause for some thermal issues. I hope they make it right for all Framework 16 owners regardless of warranty window. Long-term record with FW13 seems to be good, so I am hopeful for FW16 now too in spite of my frustrations so far since release.
To be clear, I know everyone is within warranty today. What I don’t know is
How long it will take Framework to make a solution publicly available to at least one person,
How long it will take Framework to make that solution available to everyone, and
What Framework will do for the small number of people who will inevitably not realize they are eligible for that solution until they are outside of the warranty window.
I am assuming for legal reasons Framework can’t make specific promises to people in that third group, so I can only hope Framework makes it right for FW16 owners.
And to re-iterate, Framework has a good track record with the FW13, which speaks for itself.
The first step was finding an actual solution (engineering), which took the most time. After that, we will implement the solution, deliver it to customers, and create policies around it (support, logistics, and reverse logistics).
For the RTC battery issue they still support the 11th gen intel devices that are out of warranty, so I’d imagine depending on the cause they would give a similar level of support:
