Oh - only four ports at any one time?

[Cr_nch]

Hot swapping works with no issue in my experience, as it’s basically just a glorified dongle.

[JL_Framework]

Thanks. Hmm: adding a port is not wholly like adding a dongle, because one is removing a port too. Still, I suppose the removal is akin to removing a dongle!

[Cr_nch]

Yeah, each of the expansion cards is basically a one port dongle, and they can be hot swapped with absolutely no consequence because they just use USB-C

[JL_Framework]

Thanks again. They all USB-C - even, e.g. the USB-A and HDMI cards?

Also, it is a shame that one cannot get every card in a range of colours (as against at present, where only the USB-C ports come in a range of colours). If one could, then there would be the following advantage. One could always have, in the bottom-right slot - which is the only slot on the 13 that can take any card - say, a green card. That way, one would have what is in effect a permanent colour-code marking the slot that is best used for hot-swapping.

[Be_Far]

If it changes your analysis at all, every expansion card is indeed compatible with all four (or on the 16, all six) slots. They can all be hotswapped independent of OS choice. There is no “best slot” for hot swapping cards.

• two highly specific caveats that you’re almost certainly not running into: 1) don’t remove the drive that you’re booting off of while the computer is on (storage expansion card), and 2) if you’re using Thunderbolt/USB4 over USBC, there are mainboard specific instructions for which port to plug into to get the full data rate of that protocol. The diagram that you found is similarly mainboard specific.

What would your five ports be and what would they be plugged into?

[JL_Framework]

Thanks for chiming in.

‘[E]very expansion card is indeed compatible with all four [. .] slots’; ‘The diagram that you found is [. .] mainboard specific.’ So the diagram does not apply to the model of laptop I’ve ordered? But text on the diagram page says that the diagram is for the model I ordered; and that page says, further, that not every card can go in every slot. For, the page says:

The Framework Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen™ 7040 Series) has 4 Expansion Card slots, and not all ports support all types of Expansion Card.

So I am confused.

I have ordered:

• 2 x usb-C, one for power, the other for anything, e.g. a USB-stick, that needs that connection;
• 2 x usb-A, one for a wireless mouse dongle, the other for anything that needs it such as, again, a USB-stick;
• 1 x HDMI, for giving talks;
• 1 x Display Port, for giving talks where there is no HDMI or there is a problem with the HDMI.

So that’s six, as I said (and indeed a little while ago I added an Ethernet card too).

[Be_Far]

I see, I didn’t know that was the model you ordered. My mistake, that does mean there will be compatibility issues across ports for you. But it doesn’t sound like you need to have five installed at once, given that your HDMI and DP cards would only be necessary when you give a presentation. If you need five at once, that makes me think that you’re going to have five things sticking out of your laptop at the same time. Because they’re hotswap, I keep 4 USB-C in my laptop and I have a little 3D printed case for my SD reader, USB-A, and HDMI that I toss in my work bag and bring along with me in case I need them.

Would the below work for you? via the diagram:

1. USB-C for charging; disconnected if you need to plug in a USB-C stick. If you need to plug in USB-C devices while at your desk leaving it plugged in, you could look at USB-C docks that support PD so you could charge the laptop and use data across one cable.
2. USB-A for mouse dongle/others
3. DP or HDMI when giving presentations, or ethernet otherwise. This could be your “designated hot swapping” port. Also, some USB-C PD docks can handle ethernet as well, so that would eliminate the need for that card.
4. USB-A for mouse dongle/others

[JL_Framework]

The scheme you propose is identical to one that I myself had worked out already!

[Forge]

On my FW AMD 13, I just remember that the “rear” two ports (closest to hinge, farthest from me) are the high-speed/low-compatibility ports. IIRC, they’re USB4. I do recall that using USB-A, HDMI, or DP adapters there can cause high idle power use. The “front” two ports, closest to me, are USB 3 IIRC, and can use the USB-A/HDMI/DP adapters without high idle power use.

I always use the rear ports with USB-C adapters, and primarily for charging the FW itself or mobile devices.

[JL_Framework]

Well, see the aforementioned diagram.

[Forge]

Yes, but “the rear ports are USB 4, the front ones are USB 3.2, and port 2 can never be used for display outputs”, while more correct, is harder to remember than “back ports fast, front ports slow”.

All of the learning in the world benefits you not at all if you forget some or all of it.

But yes, the diagram is correct.

[Nils]

@JL_Framework

I have ordered:

• 2 x usb-C, one for power, the other for anything, e.g. a USB-stick, that needs that connection;

Be aware that all non-USBC cards come with power implications. If you want the possibility of having a minimum power configuration with all slots filled, get 4 USBC (or a bunch of snack drawers after market). The corners of the bays are quite sharp, so you probably don’t want to travel with the laptop with any slot unfilled.

(it may be surprising that even the USBA changes power use; that’s because some wiring between USBA and USBC makes a contact that makes the hardware detect that something is plugged in, which then prevents stuff on the main board to go to its absolute minimum power state. The draw is not very big, but definitely measurable; particularly compared against “suspend” power levels)

[JL_Framework]

Thanks for the information.

That information is useful but dispiriting, Sharp edges? Carry around empty slots to mitigate-power-consumption-and-avoid-sharp-edges? Here we see limitations of Framework’s approach to ports, or at least - the sharp edges - a problem with its limitation.

I’d be grateful if you could point me towards somewhere where one can buy the ‘snack draws’.

[MJ1]

@JL_Framework

I’d be grateful if you could point me towards somewhere where one can buy the ‘snack draws’.

The SNACK Drawer Store: Now Made with Real Snacks

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[Nils]

For snack drawers:

The SNACK Drawer V2: Back in Snacktion

Introducing the newest SNACK Drawer! This new drawer builds on the flaws of the old drawer to make all your drawer fun even more fun than it already was. [RenderPromo] Buy Now! Physical Drawer: $3 + shipping Digital Files (.stl, .3mf, .step): $8 Updates: No more flimsy tabs Open without having to lift the laptop Robustified lugs make sure the card will not fall out of the expansion slot If you previously bought a SNACK Drawer or the digital files, expect an e-mail soon with the updated…

It’s really not a big deal: the framework 13 is just a laptop with 4 USBC ports. For convenience, you can configure it with dongles that neatly fit in the chassis, at the price of the power draw that comes with a dongle.

[JL_Framework]

Thank you for the link / snippet.

It is something of a big deal - for two reasons. First, you present the laptop as if having anything other than USB-C ports is a mere convenience. That is bizarre. Second, if the following is the case then it is a problem: on the Framework ‘slots’ that are not USB-C use more power, when idle, than on other laptops. Or at least that is a problem given the sharp edges. It seems to me that what should be said if that the adaptability (and repairability) of the Framework comes at a price, i.e., there is a trade-off.

EDIT: Ah - I do not need a ‘snack draw’ (i.e., empty slot). For, if, so as to save power, one removes a slot - a video one or USB-A - one can replace it with a spare USB-C. (For, I did order two USB-Cs, and was planning to have only one of them plugged in most of the time.)

[Nils]

@JL_Framework

Or at least that is a problem given the sharp edges. It seems to me that what should be said if that the adaptability (and repairability) of the Framework comes at a price, i.e., there is a trade-off.

Yes, using USB to achieve the modularity has caused a trade-off for Framework as far as I can see. On the other hand, on other laptops one cannot easily remove an HDMI port to see how much of a power draw its presence really causes, so we don’t really have firm numbers for a comparison (for the USB-A ports it’s a different matter: I’m pretty sure that a dedicated one of those can be wired in such a way that the main board knows nothing’s plugged in).

That said, I use 2xUSB-C + 1xUSB-A + 1xHDMI and flown long haul with that without depleting my battery. Even with a 80% charge limit I find the battery life acceptable. But I can usually plug in my laptop when I’m using it and I usually have it plugged in over night.

Concerning only USB-C: the Macbook Air seems to make do with 2 USB-C ports, and they are even on only one side! And there your dongles will always stick out! On the plus side, on the Air you unplug your dongles easily when you suspend your machine, so their idle power draw is not a concern. So yes, I consider the framework as a middle ground between the Air USB-C purism/minimalism and equipping a machine with all dedicated ports.

[XenoCow]

@JL_Framework

I do not need a ‘snack draw’ (i.e., empty slot)

What you call an empty slot, I call a great place to keep a few beans. Jokes aside, I appreciate you considering the SNACK drawers.

Also, have you looked into any of the multiport expansion cards that people have developed like the DongleHider+ or Josh Cook’s dual USB-C expansion cards? They might help with the limitation of the number of ports part of your concern.

[amoun]

@JL_Framework

It seems to me that what should be said if that the adaptability (and repairability) of the Framework comes at a price,

I wouldn’t expect less

@JL_Framework

the Framework ‘slots’ that are not USB-C use more power, when idle, than on other laptops.

and what gives you that idea and what other ports on the framework do you want?

[Wio_Steelhor]

I wanted to support, Be_Far,here:

Be_Far is the only one that I noticed mentioned that the FW13 only has four (4) expansion ports but the FW16 has six (6) expansion ports. Just to emphasize in case you ‘really’ wanted all six at the same time and may want to sell or pass down your FW13 for the FW16.

Thanx,
Wio
Texas Citizen