Power Button Fails to Start Laptop after a day or three switched off

Okay removed the battery and the bios battery, Plugged the bios battery back in and then the main battery and lights start a flashing.

Plugged the keyboard back in and it now powers up fine. Had to re-do the Bios settings but that was a given.

Going to keep an eye on this as its not really usable going forward if I have to pre-check my laptop will start every few days.

Interesting you had the same problem. Questions:- A. Did you contact support who may then have suggested the two power supply solution?

B. Is it possible that like me you possibly connected power the very first time on the left-hand-side of the laptop?

As I may have mentioned I did “A” and got solution “B” which didn’t work. Problem is that there are so many different power supplies that some don’t actually charge the laptop at all, and you need to use a none fast charger type, so not 100% sure if I applied the technique correctly.

I am not about to open up and remove the battery just yet but may do so in a week or three.

Your feedback on if the rest works long term would be helpful.

Regards…

Nope, I’m a IT support guy myself. I get a lot of laptops in that wont charge etc. and often its the motherboard has got out of sync with the charger and battery.

That or the charger/cable is busted so you just learn to try all the configurations till they are all exhausted or one works.

So last resort was remove battery and Bios battery and then put it all back together. That worked.

I’m now leaving my laptop for 5 days to see if it happens again. If it does I’ll probably ask for a return as that’s not usable.

Either that or it need a 3.09 bios if it’s a bug.

Actually I just switched it on this minute. The power button glowed for like 30 seconds, nothing on screen and it powered off. Second press it powered on normally.

Not good. :unamused:

Interesting.

Mine has not been on for a couple of days but 90% charged.
Just tried it, nothing, tried again, nothing.
Back to the power supply.

It is NOT good that you have done the whole reset thing and the problem persists.

I too am in or was in IT for quite a while, little experience of laptops other than the 1/2" wad of fluff totally blocking my last laptops fan duct. Then took four hours to dismantle which at least is in the Framework’s favour being so easy to take apart.

With power connected on the left the light was off for say 20 seconds, then red, then flashing on/off then on all the time. Hitting the power button it sat there ON for say 30 seconds with a blank screen, then went off say 10 seconds, then on again and the “Framework” sign appeared and it booted. Possibly the same as previously, the odd bit being the delay as something happened when power first applied and on hitting the power button.

I had hoped that tech support would have (even if unofficially) responded to this post. My last ticket on this subject wasn’t responded to properly I was basically left to try the two power supply solution.

I will keep you posted on what I do next, and

PS Framework please respond. :slight_smile:

Regards

Welcome to the “club”. RTC: Viability of using a rechargable RTC battery

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Hi Alowndar,

Link really appreciated, and a massive number of posts on it too.
“Support” had never mentioned the rechargeable RTC battery, and being a 40 year veteran in IT and having to change the RTC battery like NEVER in most PCs I have and have supported it didn’t occur to me that was fitted and could cause a problem.

The overall problem is that as yet I have not seen an examination of all the possible causes which include.

A. Wrong original charge procedure. (initial charge from LHS not RHS)
B. Poor cable connections after opening the case
C. RTC battery going flat
D. Badly soldered RTC battery holder

C and D may be the same problem.

With so many possibilities and different combinations of solutions, including where maybe the problem was A or B and was fixed its difficult to follow any logical pattern.

I am NOT going to open the case and play with removing the connection to the main battery or remove the RTC battery, its even possible here than a bad solder joint on the RTC battery holder is “fixed” by its remove and refit, although unlikely.

What is of interest is the RTC battery voltage? How was this measured, possibly using one of the many utility progs that check various voltages. If so I will monitor mine.

Finally although tempted to replace the RTC battery with a “normal” one this may not be possible, but if it is dangerous as the circuitry may try to charge it once the voltage drops a little (after five or ten years !!! ) and which point it may go bang.

Just about to Duckduckgo (sorry Google) measuring the RTC battery voltage.

Again thanks for the link !

Regards…

Yeah it’s really disappointing but I am still hoping Framework can come up with a solution for us supporters/customers.

At the end of the day it seems to me this isn’t an ‘Intel issue’ but a Framework issue.

Maybe they could supply a replacement board with a proper battery and the recharge links disconnected?

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I have had a quick look and a search on “rechargeable CMOS RTC battery” brings up lots of hits. I can’t imagine it is just one manufacturer who designs in this feature.

What I can’t find as yet is a utility that checks the voltage. The motherboard or some associated circuit MUST measure this to determine when to charge it.

Lots of utilities exist to check voltages on PCs motherboards, plus temperature etc. I looked in the UEFI BIOS I didn’t immediately see anywhere that showed voltage(unlikely) or enabled a view of its voltage.

I will continue to look for such a utility and “Framework” have a certain obligation to provide such a utility themselves as I’m sure the mobo maker probably does… goes to look at who makes the mobo…ANYONE KNOW THIS?

Microsoft have a way to check your battery status (handy and lots of stats) via Powershell. (needs Admin rights)

powercfg /batteryreport /output “C:\battery-report.html”

but this does not show the CMOS battery, although it could be useful to diagnose the problem if associated with the main battery.

Regards…

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Reading the other post scattered with comments about the pros and cons of rechargeable or not the REALLY IRRITATING thing is that the problem of the rechargeable battery discharging quite quickly seems to be a KNOWN PROBLEM?

Yet support had me trying different power supplies attached to each side and potentially opening the box and disconnecting and reconnecting both batteries. NONE of WHICH would have worked.

If they know the problem then then need to own up to it and sort the problem with the various people having this problem.

The fact that not all machines have this problem would tend to point to either a design flaw i.e. some circuitry just on the limit, or a problem during manufacture; maybe faulty parts too.

The 3rd option of incorrect first charging and loose connections can’t be totally ruled out, and if this is the case then a specific route of checks and fixes needs to be published. Note here that the present info on two chargers etc. and the symptoms experienced does not fit the problems I have.

In essence it isn’t acceptable or practical to have a laptop that may need the charger to start it only days after it has been last used/charged. Nor is it acceptable or practical particularly with a laptop which is by its very nattier meant to be portable to fully charge it every time you use it in case next time it does not work.

Regards…

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I did a quick search for what laptops uses ML1220 as the BIOS / CMOS / RTC battery. It turns out…quite a few…like Acermate, XPS 13 /15…

So I’m not sure why we’re running into this issue. Firmware programming draining it?

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Yes quite right. I did some looking up and indeed, fairly common so I was mistaken.

However, now it begs to ask…what went so wrong here?

Million dollar question right there.

Someone pointed out that the real issue / question is “Why is the CMOS battery draining so quickly?”.

The Intel bug is a symptom / result of this low voltage…caused by the CMOS battery drain…if I’m not mistaken.

So, shouldn’t Framework be looking into the drain issue? …and why other Tiger Lake laptops with ML1220 don’t seem to exhibit this problem like we do?

Starting to really think that mention of “Intel silicon bug” is just a diversion.

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Maybe a larger capacity battery (if one will fit?) A 30mAh maybe? A piggy back solution?

Not read about his Intel bug BUT my Laptop asks me almost every time I switch it on to update the Intel drivers. A few times I have said yes only to regret it as the update just stalled and after an hour I crash out of it.

I have a few more posts t read I assume on same subject so will read those and then get back to the “Intel bug”

A quick search finds the old floating point bug :slight_smile: this was when Adam was a lad in 1994, the only other bug I remember is the security problem which was a few years ago and must certainly be fixed by now.

So…

A. If Framework design their own motherboard?
B. If Framework have redesigned the CMOS battery circuitry

This could simply be just regular development
OR
There was a software/firmware/hardware problem that is being fixed.

The inability to check the CMOS battery voltage level on-the-fly is the real problem, otherwise its back to one of the many “fixes”.

To me then being able to monitor the CMOS battery voltage IN REAL TIME.
perfectly possible if there is sensing of the voltage to decide if it needs charging??? IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

Regards…

I checked with support on the monitoring of the CMOS battery voltage, charging state etc.
The official reply is there ISN’T ANY.

Seems like a “Doh” moment.

If I understand it correctly one of several things are happening…

A. The rechargeable battery discharges too quickly
B. If it takes 24 hours with external power connected then it charges slowly.
C. The rechargeable battery fitted to the first models such as mine to TOO SMALL in capacity.
D. There is a fault in the way the battery is attached to the mobo.

“A” may not be true (but SERIOUS if it is) as conventional 2032 or whatever normal battery lasts say 10 years) so discharge rate is MEGGA LOW !!

“B” certainly true and maybe if the Laptop battery isn’t charged fully when PC first used then the CMOS battery (supplied charged?) never gets its full charge? You are then in a loop unless you leave your charger attached for extended periods of time and the CMOS batter then gets a full charge. Modern battery charging does as far as I can see does not screw the main battery but people may still believe this and remove the charger or simply work on battery power (it is a laptop ! )

As you can’t monitor it? (Huh?) All desktop PC mother boards come with a host of sensors for temperature voltage etc. Who forgot the CMOS one?

“C” from some other posts it seems like it is and the newer model has a larger capacity battery (and a monitoring circuit saving you opening the cover just to read the battery voltage? )

“D” I have kind of discounted this one, without taking things apart {and breaking the 2 years warranty (UK) }this is a difficult one.

I charged the battery (not 24 hour charge) to 95% and switched on every day for four days, today 20th June 2022 it DIDN’T START so either the CMOS battery wasn’t charged fully OR it discharges tooooooo quickly.

Some official answer needed here.

Any info on the new model and its CMOS setup appreciated.

Regards…

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There is definitely a problem here with how often some users are having to reset the mainboard, as the connector is very fragile. Users are warned that the connector is fragile, but even experienced PC builders or people used to repairing consoles still accidentally break fragile connectors. For instance, I have seen many reports of these people breaking the WiFi antenna connectors off of boards.

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This is the same experience I had with support! But now they have stopped replying to my ticket in several days. @Burt have you commented over in this thread RTC: Viability of using a rechargable RTC battery - #148 by d_p

I found your thread by accident and you have provided lots of great insights. I think the other thread title will cause many people to miss it. Something like “Laptop won’t power on” would catch more attention.

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Hi d_p

I only found the other (RTC) thread by chance, I think another person copied it to this thread.

I can’t alter the title of either thread and it is so long I don’t think I have read it all.

Possibly posting the title of this thread in the other post will alert anyone following it (which could be a lot of people) to this info?

Sorry to ask (as a long time IT person :slight_smile: but how do I add a link to another post in a post? When I sort out this simple thing I will add one to this in the “RTC” one.

Regards