Power Button Fails to Start Laptop after a day or three switched off

Community Support
44

Hi amoun,

Very useful information, Thanks !!

I can live with taking it apart once (it’s a DIY machine anyway) that allows me to measure the voltage etc. too.

I read somewhere her that there is a higher capacity rechargeable battery too? In which case I could replace the existing one? Do Framework supply this, I will look in a moment.

PS I guess the discharge rate does not vary with use, but the CMOS battery does get a little charge when I have to connect the p/s as I did yesterday. This could slightly extend the life (ok JUST) to beyond the 24 days, 25 maybe? :slight_smile:

Regards…

45

I don’t think there is the standard capacity is 17mAh
The size does matter the ML 1220 means it’s 12mm (12.5) diameter and 2.0mm thick so you can’t really put a bigger battery in the holder and I haven’t seen a larger capacity battery.

Even if there is a higher capacity of that size then the charging charactersitics may not match with what the motherboard supplies.

The current KTS make is from the same manufacturer of Panasonic…
The only alternative is the Maxcell version which states 18mAh of capacity.

You may like to see it’s spec, but I don’t think it’s worth swapping to it.

46

I’m not sure of what you mean.

If you connect the power supply then it will, and that is the recommeded action that Framework suggests if the laptop is not going to be used for some weeks ~ leave it plugged in.

Whereas that may/should work according to Framework I hate to imagine what power the adapter uses 25/7 for 30 days just being basically idle.

It only has to supply 1mA, well less as the CMOS battery will not stay discharged after a day so we maybe talking about supply a max of 30µA continuously.

Voltage adapter are not very efficient and often have a draw of much higher than that when there is no load, so maybe 10 times more electricity is being consumed in the adapter than is getting to the CMOS battery. Oh and of course there’s the motherboard circuitry at work all the time.

I’m not concerned that it may ‘waste’ 99% of the electricity, I’m not an environmental freak of that nature, but it does cause me to raise my eyebrows.

Typical mains unit will use 200mW to provide 3mW to the CMOS when it is completely dead and 200mW when charged after 24 hours to provide 3v x 30µA i.e. 1mW

So more like 99.5% ‘waste’ :rofl:

47

I know this thread has veered into CMOS battery issue but there is one thing I would like to note my case, that seems slightly different.

My build is similar DIY build 11th gen, came with Bios v3.7

The power on issue happened to me only once. I had taken the new laptop with me and had to work from my car for a bit. To test if the car usb port could charge the laptop, I plugged it in to the USB C port (top right port). It started charging so I disconnected it and continued on battery. After a while, I closed the lid and drove back (maybe an hour). Laptop was on the backseat.

When I came home and opened the lid, the laptop didn’t power on. No lights nothing.

After a frenetic search, first forum article I found said plug in two power supplies, and I tried that, and I believe that did the trick. Since then I’ve left the laptop on charger with battery set to 80% most of the time… however I’ve left it on the bedside on a couple of occasions and it hasn’t had the power on issue next day morning.

It could be that was the first or second day of usage and the cmos battery hadn’t charged fully and hence it went bust (and the low power USB C connection didn’t have anything to do with it). I guess I’ll find out soon as I am expecting a far bit of “off charger” use in the next three weeks.

Could be an unseated cable but then I’ve taken in in a backpack walked about, been to friends, since then and it hasn’t baulked. So unlikely to be a mechanical issue.

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48

Correction it is inconsistent.

Left ‘fully’ charged to 78%, monitor reads 79 or 80 plugged in, unused for hours and has gone to red ???

49

Day 6 27th June 2022.
Starts ok without ac power.

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50

28th Day 7 starts without ac connected.
I did charge it to 80% (one hour ish) as were were to be without power during the day

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51

Thanks for keeping ‘us’ informed as given I use the latop for 4,5, 6 hours every day it is plugged in most of the time.

52

Day 9 30th June 2022 powers on ok without ac connection.

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53

Days 10, 11,12, and today day 13 the 4th July 2022 all powered on ok without ac power. No more short term charging needed as yet.

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54

Days 13 to 17 8th July 2022 all ok

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55

Day 32 yesterday 22nd July 2022 almost on the button (no pun intended) it would not fire up. All days before was ok. Plus two short charges and one to 80% (as limited in the BIOS)

Connected mains supply and after a few (15?) seconds it fired up, let it charge (55% ish) until had to leave. At new location it worked ok with out mains connection, hinting at least that the BIOS battery got enough charge to allow a none mains startup.

Today 23rd started ok no mains.

Downside is that on the mains-start above the time was back to US, possibly 80% battery limit lost too, just checking.

Windows started, mouse moves via touchpad, even time has corrected BUT Windows unresponsive, now battery warning which won’t respond to mouse click.

Attached mains, battery warning gone, but Windows (10) does not respond other than mouse pointer moves.

Charging light is orange.

After five minutes still no response, can’t get to BIOS, or shut down or type any command, so no idea what battery level it was at, as and when will check what the limit was in Windows settings.

Is it Windows or Framework that stops it responding VERY TEDIOUS I don’t remember this on previous laptops

Five mins or more, starts to respond, shut W10 down, will wait half an hour or more than get into BIOS to set things again.

I guess had I gone through the “charge for 24 hours or more” routine a few days before the 31/32 days it lasted I would be ok.

After resetting things I will start the test again i.e. charge 24+ hours.

Regards…

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56

There’s the problem that if you have BIOS 3.09, given it’s flaw, then you can’t charge with the laptop OFF or in hibernate.

It can charge that much in an hour, so the level of battery charge is irrelevant, it’s that you require around 18 hours to fully charge at 1mA per hour. So 1hr is not much and could theoretically keep you going for a day ???

57

For the absence of doubt

I’m still on the BIOS version 3.07 as supplied, mentioned a few times above. Hopefully I would remember to mention a BIOS update, plus the fewer parameters changed when testing the better = no BIOS update.

This (as also mentioned ) does charge the BIOS battery with the laptop shut down, not explicitly mentioned above but a reasonable assumption based on initially the fact that it failed to start a number of times when only charged a little. Little = an hour or more just charging the main battery to a reasonable state say 80%. Also not a given but it did last the month as Framework suggested after a 24 hours + charge (switched off).

Clarification on “It can charge” I should have mentioned the main battery was about 55%.

Totally lost me on the last paragraph. The whole subject of the “main battery” has been beaten to death already, and it is reasonably assumed that the BIOS battery takes 24+ hours as the laptop survived 31 days until it would not start, after a 24+ hours and a few short charges to maintain the main battery level. Again all this has been beaten to death already.

If there is NEW? information on any of this glad to hear it.

Regards…

58

Yes I wouldn’t assume about the BIOS and it’s warning not just to you but to anyone else you would like to experiment the way you have done not to try with BIOS 3.09

Regarding the last paragraph.

  • The ML1220 is a 17mAh battery that charges around 1mAh so 24 hours is just a safegaurd as in, let it charge for a day.

You did. [55%] I was trying to highlight that the level of charge on the main battery is irelevant to that of the ML 1220, they are not connected and given that you charged to 55% shows the likelyhood that the connection time was very short and didn’t charge the ML 1220 much

59

I’m having the same issue. Plenty of main battery life left. Will NOT power on at all after a few days off or in hibernate. I have to plug in a charger, and then long press the power button until it decides to turn back on. All standard parts, nothing crazy in terms of RAM (Crucial) or SSD (Samsung 970 EVO). Running WIn11, updated BIOS version. You’re telling me the CMOS battery is the reason for this? I have a 12 year old laptop without anything like this issue…

At one point, I had the thing charging for days…and the same thing happened two days later.

I’m grateful that this is a test/toy device and not one of my main PRODs…I wanted to replace my Surface Book 3 (no Performance base) as my daily driver, but it’s never been even remotely close to reliable enough…we won’t speak about the main battery life :wink:

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60

Welcome to the “Will it/Wont it” Club. :grimacing:

61

Hi @Giuseppe_Naylor

You don’t say which version you have, but yes with the 11 Gen chips there is apparently a flaw in the Intel chip that once the BIOS/RTC battery discharges it hangs and so a ‘mainboard reset’ is required.

Given the above I doubt it’s the same issue but maybe a) a faulty battery b) the battery is poorly seated and isn’t being charged efficiently or c) the battery holder is not soldered properly.

You may want to remove the battery, clean it etc. and check.

Official support will no doubt help and may send you a battery if they deem it at fault, though it may be quicker and less stressful to buy a new battery and try that

This happens if the ML1220 isn’t charged regularly for 1 hour a day, or some 7 to 8 hours a weeks etc.

A fully charged new battery should keep the charge for at least two weeks not two days.

62

Wow. So the main battery is fine. Version of BIOS is 3.10, with the 1135G7 main board. Your truly missed the whole point…

A CMOS battery that doesn’t work or hold a charge. I have literal 12 year old laptops where the CMOS battery still works. After a week… Hard reset on the main board because the CMOS battery is not charged?! What if I take a vacation and decide not to turn on my computer?

I was truly hoping that this would become my daily driver. The upgrade path alone is worth it… But not at the expense of unreliability. It’s gotta turn on when I need it to turn on. That’s just basics.

Sunk cost…thanks.

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63

I don’t think so