Proposition: Ryzen Z1/Z2 series on the framework 12 platform

Framework Laptop 12
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Hi Framework Community,

I’d like to make a proposal about some future processor options for the Framework 12 (or maybe even the 13). I believe the Ryzen Z1/Z2 series would be good options because they provide a lower power, lower cost option to the Ryzen AI series and Intel Core Ultra series without the NPU (except the Z2 Extreme which does have one), which are seldom used and just add cost.

They have great iGPUs (Steam Deck GPU, Radeon 680M, 740M, 760M, 780M, 890M) which would allow them to be used by Engineers, Gamers and Video editors on the go, and they have a low TDP which will allow for good cooling and battery life with the existing battery. They could also handle larger AI models than the NPUs that have been removed from them albeit at higher power draw. The Z1/Z1 Extreme do appear to be identical to the 7640U and 7840U respectively except they do not have an NPU and have a lower TDP.

They all use the FP8 BGA socket so circuitry from the Framework 13 (7040 series) can be reused, which should lower engineering costs. One concern that I have if this is to be implemented is that the current Framework 12 Mainboards only have 1 DDR5 SODIMM slot, and the iGPUs work best with dual channel memory, however I believe this issue could be solved with a stacked slot, although I’m not sure about how much clearance this would leave for the case. Alternatively, if this is not possible, LPDDR5 chips could be used for one memory channel and a SODIMM could be used for the other memory channel, using experience gained from the Framework Desktop, while still allowing memory upgradeability, and this approach may also reduce power draw.

These new APUs could compete with budget gaming laptops and gaming handhelds on value, and could also appeal to hobbyists who convert their Framework mainboards into handhelds. This is assuming that Framework would be able to get them at similar prices to their competition but this may not be possible, but it would still be a good option as a portable, repairable, reliable machine with a good GPU.

Please feel free to point out any issues with my proposal. Thank you!

2 Likes
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can you remind me what’s the battery life on those ?
also I rember that distrbutors has to provide drivers on their own which shouldn’t be a issue but might be a pretty big one
Z2 Exrtreme is in the ally X which is 1000 USD or more
Z1 Extreme seems to be on Zen 4 which I doubt the efficency of
The 12’s market is more akin to a Macbook Neo then a handheld therefor I belive that CPUs like
wildcat (310 320 Intel) Panther lake (322 325) AMD AI (330 340 350) is more likely
If they ditched the idea of a U5 338H then I don’t think powerful Igpus will exist in the 12
correct me if you want but I belive all these reason would snipe the possbility of a Z1/Z2 Extreme

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Regarding the TDP,

The Ryzen Z1 series have a cTDP from 9-30W, the Z2A has a cTDP of 6-20W, and the rest of the Z2 series has a cTDP of 15-30W. I think since they’re designed for handhelds you could probably tweak the power profile to be even lower at idle. I’m aware the cooling system of the Framework 12 is designed for 15W chips which could be an issue for performance but visually the heatsink looks like its a similar size to the 13’s heatsink so it can probably handle at least 28W.

Zen 4 efficiency is actually really good, I have a 7840U Framework 13 at the moment, and I used to have the i7 1280P Mainboard but it failed a few months ago and Framework sent me the 7840U as a replacement out of warranty (by 3 years) (which was VERY generous of them and I thank them lots for doing that). With the 1280P I’d be lucky to get 5 hours of use but with the 7840U I can get 8 hours of light use and 5 hours of video playback (from an 80% health 55Wh battery running Bazzite and 32GBs of RAM on each (the i7 had DDR4 and the R7 has DDR5)). The 7840U, despite being much cheaper has only slightly lower multicore than the 1280P and the GPU is leagues better. 13th Gen’s efficiency is comparable to 12th gen (honestly both are pretty bad in my experience, both thermally and power draw wise).

I also own a Minisforum BD790i X3D with a Ryzen 9 7945HX3D (I got it because it was £100 cheaper than the 7950X alone) and the performance of that thing with only 80W is astronomical, far better than a 12700K with unlocked power limits and water cooling with only a 140MM fan and heatsink at a lower cost than a 12700K + Motherboard + Wifi.

Zen 5 efficiency is obviously much better since that was the main improvement over Zen 4. The Z2 Go is Zen 3+ and the Z2A is only Zen 2 (because it’s basically a Steam deck chip). These chips have proven their efficiency in the handhelds that they’re in, which have comparable or smaller batteries so It should get similar battery life (ignoring the display which will draw more power).

Considering the Macbook Neo is being praised for its good CPU and GPU performance (ignoring the 8GB of RAM) these chips could probably compete in terms of power, probably not efficiency since RISC chips are hard to beat, but you could probably get reasonably close with a good conservative power profile.

The Panther lake chips and Ryzen AI chips that you mentioned have a similar power envelope to the R7 7840U at 28-55W (with 12W MAP) which could be a slight problem (probably more likely to come to the 13) but the Wildcat lake chips would probably be a better fit and have a power envelope more similar to the Z1/Z2 chips, but they’re unreleased and therefore real world performance numbers are not readily available yet.

I still think they’re viable because of that low configurable TDP however as you say Framework may not want to position these laptops in a slightly different segment that may compete with the 13 and 16 (despite the 13 and 16 having more powerful options regardless).

Please correct me if anything I’ve said is wrong, this is what I’ve found with the limited research I’ve done.

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Maybe I just over estimate the battery life of a FW 12 your propsal is a pretty good idea lmao