Interesting idea! And would solve the space concern, but I’m not to sure about using your thumb to control your pointer! You usually use that for clicking with trackpoints!
2 Likes
While that’s a very interesting idea that I haven’t seen before, I don’t think that’s an adequate replacement for having a trackpoint between the G, H, and B buttons. For me, the main benefit of the trackpoint is that it allows me to quickly transition between typing, moving the cursor, and clicking without repositioning my hands.
I just tried to use a trackpoint with my thumb, and it was difficult to control while causing much more strain on my wrist than using it with my pointer finger did. If the trackpoint were between the keyboard and the touchpad, it would lose its key advantage over the touchpad, since I would have to reposition my hand to use it with my pointer finger.
5 Likes
Typing this from my x230.
Just want to add on here, I would certainly buy a framework today if it had a trackpoint. Really what I would want would be the classic x220 keyboard layout. I also own a TEX Shinobi, mentioned elsewhere, and it’s excellent. Unfortunately I can’t justify moving to a laptop without a trackpoint, while laptops with trackpoints still exist.
2 Likes
Bailed on a purchase 15 minutes ago because no trackpoint option AND more importantly: there has been absolutely no response from management on this issue.
This should be common sense for management. Customers switch products to gain features, not to lose them. If trackpoints weren’t commercially relevant they wouldn’t be on Thinkpads, would they?
3 Likes
This is not true. @nrp has stated in the past that fitting trackpoint into the keyboard was not possible with the current design.
I’m sorry that the laptop was not the product you needed, and I hope that you are able to find something that better suits your needs.
1 Like
Why is it that so many people believe that their use case, and only their use case, is the most important thing in the world? Many, many people get by just fine without a trackpoint. That doesn’t mean that Framework shouldn’t look into adding a trackpoint, but it does mean that choosing not to put one in the current model isn’t as financially devastating as you seem to be claiming.
1 Like
The common answer to that is that it’s all about me!
2 Likes
@Chiraag_Nataraj, I keep describing the Framework as the answer to the 2016-2019 Macbook Pro era.
The 2016 era Macbook Pro is a “prosumer” device, whose main competitor tends to be Lenovo Thinkpad P15 laptops.
The Framework is addressing an untapped use case competing for market share in the entry level prosumer category, and naturally attracts attention from other buyers in the prosumer demographic/sphere. This use case is repairable prosumer quality consumer hardware.
Framework’s DIY Pro business model can enable it to compete/join up with Raspberry Pi, Arduino, Linux, and Lego Mindstorms, and other DIY and STEM educational brands, by being the prosumer version of the Raspberry Pi.
Framework can lean into its prosumer quality target and strike for the Thinkpad market.
Framework can lean into its high quality hardware target, and continue to fix what is wrong with the Apple devices, and Surface Pro devices buy releasing consumer targeted alternatives under a strong brand name. It is here that there will always be the ever present question Macbook vs Thinkpad, Apple vs Lenovo.
1 Like
My first laptop was an IBM Thinkpad 560. Loved the trackpoint. I thought I’d never get anything without one. Bought a Dell Inspiron (8100 I think) later on because it had a pointing stick and not just a trackpad. Really didn’t like the trackpads. Since then I’ve prioritized other characteristics of the laptops I’ve had (weight, power, etc.). Never really liked the trackpads on any of them.
I’ve got to say though, I really like the trackpad on the Framework. It works well and as I’ve gotten used to gestures, I’m finding them indispensable. Certainly there are times when I miss the trackpoint, and I may consider buying a replacement keyboard with one of it becomes available, but I’m quite happy with what Framework went with.
2 Likes
I just wanted to add another round of support for this Really hope a future model is considering Track point
Would love to leave behind Lenovo but they keep so many customers loyal with their little nubs.
I simply refuse to engage with trackpad or mouse. No exceptions.
trackpoint is so much more efficient when typing for long hours and only switching to mouse periodically.
Trackball is so much better for complex mouse tasks.
The only reason people keep using the former is because they are used to them and switching takes getting used to.
If companies didn’t keep offering only these inefficient pointing methods then the general public wouldn’t be so used to them and many would prefer the more efficient and accurate pointers.
At least that is my opinion
It’s a sunk cost fallacy on the part of the consumer but the market is feeding it to them while they’re young.
5 Likes
I got myself a refurb 4th gen X1 Carbon for now. Still looking at these products for the long term. I really think a collab with the community (to make the part) is the most viable approach.
1 Like
+1 for trackpoint!
Also, thinkpad keyboard layout, for me mainly keys above the arrow keys. The ability to remap those to Home/End is beauty.
2 Likes
Speaking of 3rd parties being able to make keyboards for the frame.work… This would be a boon in the enthusiast community. People could have an ortholinear keyboard on a laptop!
7 Likes
I wish a third-party like Tex Keyboard could partnership with Framework to build a keyboard replacement with a trackpoint. My carpal tunnel would be grateful! XD
5 Likes
Now that is an excellent idea! They make wonderfull keyboards!
I’ve been using ThinkPads since 2005. I’ve always disabled the touchpad and only used the TrackPoint or an external mouse. A few years ago I’ve had some discomfort in my wrists, then I’ve stopped using the mouse entirely, and the discomfort went away soon. I haven’t used my mouse since, and haven’t had wrist discomfort either. I think one of huge benefits a TrackPoint has over touchpads or external mice is that you barely have to shift hand position when switching between typing and pointing.
At work, I’ve been using a PC with a Lenovo external USB keyboard, which is a 6-row keyboard with a TrackPoint, for a couple of years. I didn’t felt a big issue with the island style keys, although I still have a preference for the classic style keys. I did often miss the 7th row of keys, especially the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn. It’s just not the same with 6 rows.
Even though I was able to be quite productive with this keyboard, every time that I switched from the work PC to my personal laptop, I felt bliss due to how the keyboard feels.
Later at work, I switched to a 2015 MacBook Pro (and later to a 2020 one). I felt the keys feel a bit worse than the Lenovo keyboards, but they are good enough. It takes a while to get used to the different keyboard shortcuts, but I got used to most of them. After 3 years I still find it annoying not to have dedicated Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys. I got used to the TouchPad rather quickly, and am using it exclusively. I learned to be productive with this keyboard and TouchPad, but once again, I feel much nicer when I go back to my personal laptop.
To summarize, I have regularly worked with 7-row and 6-row ThinkPad keyboards using TrackPoint exclusively, as well as with a 6-row MBP keyboard using TouchPad. I can live with and be productive with either of the three options (in decreasing order of preference, as mentioned), however if I could choose, I would choose the 7-row ThinkPad keyboard. And for my personal laptop purchase decision, this is one of the most important considerations. This is why all of my personal laptops are older ThinkPads: W530, X230, 2x X230t in my workshop, and an X220. All the *30 ThinkPads are modded with the *20 7-row keyboards installed.
I would buy a Framework laptop if/when a TrackPoint keyboard becomes available. Ideally, there should be no TrackPad at all, and the keyboard should be a 7-row layout like in the so-called classic keyboard from the *20 series ThinkPads. The TrackPoint buttons below the spacer are very important, especially the middle-button scrolling, as implemented on ThinkPads, it is a feature I use all the time. By the way, on the *20 series ThinkPads these buttons have a nice curve on it, which is missing on the *30 series.
6 Likes
While I agree it takes a little bit of getting used to, I’d like to mention the following. I’ve bought an X220t for my wife, who hadn’t used a TrackPoint before, and she got used to it relatively quickly. Moreover, when my daughter was 4 years old, I’ve started teaching her coding using a code.org course. In the coding puzzles there, you have to drag code blocks and connect them together like pieces of a puzzle. They only connect if you drop the block accurately enough, so it needs quite a bit of precision with a pointing device. Before that, my daughter hadn’t used a computer (or a tablet/smartphone). I’ve been letting her do it using whatever laptop I had on the table at the moment - my MacBook Pro from work, or my personal 10-year old ThinkPad. I just gave her a little basic instruction on how the TouchPad and TrackPoint work, and she figured both out in no time at all. Just a few minutes after trying either pointing device, she was able to complete the coding puzzles accurately enough. After more practice with both, she seems to be equally proficient. To me it suggests that there’s nothing special about TouchPad that makes it easier to learn than the TrackPoint. Most adults are just not curious/brave/flexible enough, they are too stuck up in the boxes they managed to put themselves into.
5 Likes
trackpoint users don’t seem to understand that there’s a reason it’s such a rare addition to any laptops. some comments seem to say that “it’s everywhere” and yet it is a bit of a surprise to me every time i see a laptop with one 
jokes aside, it seems like there isn’t much space to put one without damaging the screen so unless someone comes up with a smarter design i don’t think this will ever happen.
@marco
Not many brands/models of laptops have pointing sticks these days, but all ThinkPads still do, and ThinkPads are extremely popular in the business world. So in terms of how many laptop models have this feature, it is indeed rare, but in terms of number of laptops sold with this feature, it’s not that rare. In my office (hundreds of developers + lots of non-developers) probably 25% use ThinkPads. Not sure how many use the TrackPoint, though.
It’s a pity to hear that there seems to be not enough space in terms of keyboard thickness, to house a TrackPoint…
I wish hardware developers wouldn’t try to make the thinnest possible bodies at the expense of functionality. My work MacBook 13" is much thinner than my personal ThinkPad X230, but I don’t feel any advantage resulting from this fact. They both fit just fine in my handbag or backpack. I can hold both in my hand and carry around, X230 being more comfortable to hold.
3 Likes