That’s an interesting idea, but I can’t see it being very useful. In the standard trackpoint configuration, the user can switch between typing and using the trackpoint without repositioning their hands. With the trackpoint in the side of the laptop, the user would have to take one of their hands off the keyboard and move it all the way to the laptop’s edge to use the trackpoint, then move it all the way back to the keyboard to resume typing.
Also, the trackpoint pointing stick by itself isn’t complete without the 3 mouse buttons underneath the keys. Trackpoint users need the left and right mouse buttons to click on things without repositioning their hands. And, the middle mouse button lets the user scroll with the stick using their pointer finger while holding the button down with their thumb. A pointing stick without buttons is like a mouse with no buttons and no scroll wheel, which is not nearly as useful as a complete implementation.
Fully agree with @casual. For TrackPoint to be useful, it has to be implemented in the same location it is in ThinkPads, along with the three buttons. Anything less will be just a huge letdown.
I’ve made a poll among my coworkers. Out of 16 ThinkPad users who responded, 2 (including me) use the TrackPoint - 12.5%. 7 people use the touch pad, 6 an external mouse, and 1 person uses the touch screen.
Would be nice to have more responders, though, but it’s a ballpark figure that suggests that many ThinkPad users indeed don’t use the TrackPoint. Quite likely it is indeed a relatively niche feature. But well, in absolute numbers, it could still be enough people to be an important group for a small new laptop maker.
To be useful to you. Different people use things differently. I personally don’t use the trackpoint even on notebooks that have one. It just does not feel comfortable to move the pointer with an extended finger after a few minutes. Nonetheless, I find that touchpad gestures are unreliable and error-prone, and with any additional input device that can provide scrolling there is no need for them.
@Michal_Suchanek No offense, but if you’re not a regular TrackPoint user, your opinion is not an informed opinion, it’s just your theories.
What do you mean by “move the pointer with an extended finger”? When my index finger is on the TrackPoint, it is curved about the same as it’s curved in the home row position for typing.
On the other hand it could be easy/cheap to develop an expansion module with a TrackPoint on it (as long as there’s enough space). I’m just not sure you would find it useful. I would not. How would you click/middle-click/right-click while using the no-buttons expansion module TrackPoint?
Not using trackpoint because I tried it and it did not work for me is not a theory. To be able to reach the trackpoint buttons below the keyboard my finger on the trackpoint needs to be uncomfortably extended, that’s my experience of using the device.
There is not enough space for a trackpoint in the expansion module unless you are wiling to pay for a custom trackpoint PCB design. Did you even read what you are replying to?
Also why there would not be buttons? The trackpoint module mockup posted here does have buttons.
For the last 20+ years I have always used the trackpoint on my IBM/Lenovo laptops. I only used a mouse when I was at home/in the office, which was seldom.
I would scale it like this:
Mouse: 10/10
Trackpoint: 8/10
Apple touchpad: 7.6/10
Framework touchpad: 7.5/10
Trackpoint with unstable center position: 6/10
Trackpoint with worn cap: 6/10
Lenovo touchpad: 4/10
The Framework touchpad is far superior to the Lenovo touchpad.
This is because the Lenovo touchpad has to be very small due to the three trackpoint buttons, but also because of the better responsiveness of the Framework touchpad.
All in all, I now find the framework solution better than the Lenovo trackpoint+touchpad solution.
@Michal_Suchanek I’m not trying to pick a fight or insult you. I am just saying that if you’re not a TrackPoint regular, then how can you give suggestions on which shape of TrackPoint would be good? It’s like a car driver who once tried motorbikes and didn’t like them, making suggestions to actual motorbike riders as to how to build a new design of a motorbike.
I still don’t understand why you had to uncomfortably extend your finger. Put your fingers on the home row (with a US/UK keyboard: left hand - asdf, right hand - jkl;) in the normal typing position. The fingers are naturally curved. Now move your entire right hand one key to the left. Now your index finger should be practically on top of the TrackPoint, still in the same position you use for typing. Your thumb reaches down and rests on the middle or the left click button. I’m not preaching that you should use TrackPoint, I’m genuinely trying to understand your “uncomfortably extended finger” explanation as to why you’ve given up on it.
I re-checked the trackpoint module mockup, personally I think that the usability of these tiny buttons would not be great. I can’t imagine how I would comfortably operator the pointer and the buttons without having to shift my fingers around. With the real TrackPoint, you can move the pointer and click at the same time. Second, the nub being on the side of the quite thin laptop, it’s bottom would be touch the desktop. Just trying to use an imaginary device on the side of my laptop feels very awkward. I have a feeling this could only be a barely-usable, “limp-home” pointing device, if your touchpad stops working (why would it?). To be something better than that, the expansion card would have to stick out from the laptop (like the Ethernet Expansion Card), with the TrackPoint on top. This should be possible to prototype rather simply/cheaply by someone with sufficient knowledge. Some resources:
What’s with this mentality “I would not use it so it should not exist?” I’m not saying you would or should use a trackpoint expansion module. I am saying that I like it and would likely get one if it were available at a reasonable price.
And sure, I would not use it as a primary pointing device but rather map it to scrolling and if it had those tiny buttons I might use them as volume buttons or something.
If the expansion card was sticking out of the laptop it would likely not be very convenient to use unless it was sticking out way too far - at which point you can as well make it into an USB peripherial that can be attached to anything using a plain USB cable.
Either of these solutions might be useful as a prototype for the trackpoint embedded into the keyboard, too. Sure, the mechanical design will be different but the electric design can be worked out and debugged in different form factor.
And if you are trying to understand uncomfortably extended finger I have a fun fact for you: the spacebar that you use with your thumb when typing is closer to the home row than the trackpoint buttons. Another fun fact: you tap the keys, you do not bend them to the side, a completely different motion (and yes, the trackpoint does not actually bend but it’s how you apply force to it, anyway). Another fun fact: because the spacebar is the same on both sides you can use it with the hand that happens to be close which is not very practical with multibutton trackpoint - at least one button is likely to be blocked by the hand that’s reaching for the nub. Operating the nub and the buttons with the same hand forces your hand to be at a specific angle which is again not great.
Exactly. Anyone who actually uses the trackpoint as a primary pointing device on a regular basis would instantly understand why placing it on the side of the laptop would not be ideal for multitasking (typing and manipulating the mouse). The trackpoint’s main benefit is to eliminate the need to reposition your hands when switching between controlling the keyboard and the mouse.
If you don’t use the trackpoint, please make an effort to use it exclusively for a couple of weeks before suggesting a nonstandard design for trackpoint users. The reasoning behind the standard positioning (pointing stick between G, H, and B keys / 3 mouse buttons directly underneath keyboard) will then become obvious.
There is nothing wrong with having an expansion module that adds a pointing stick or another input method, but it is absolutely not a replacement for the trackpoint in its standard layout because the side-mounted position is not optimal for multitasking. These are two completely different suggestions, and the expansion module is not what trackpoint users are asking for.
Gave up on waiting for the complete lack of news and instead recently placed an order for another Thinkpad after my current seven-year-old-one started giving me troubles. I desperately want to be able to support this business model, but as it stands I would be spending money on something I would not be able to regularly use, and despite the aforementioned overpowering desire, I just can’t justify that.
I wish there was a better way, but apparently we can’t have everything.
Lack of news? I let you the benefice of the doubt to simply be misinformed and not simply of bad faith for saying that.
The founder said they aren’t going to work on this because of technical limitations (See The Keyboard - #5 by nrp). However, they welcome contributions from the community to find a solution to this limitations.
I’ve never used a Thinkpad before, but I’d support this as well just because more options are better than fewer. I’ll be coming into the Framework world from a PowerBook G4 so it’s not exactly anything too unfamiliar, but trackpoint definitely has its accessibility advantages.
We definitely need a trackpoint. I would love to buy this product and I think many old ThinkPad users would, but without a trackpoint unfortunately no chance…
(Signed up here only to bring you this feedback )
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